Against the Tide



Introduction


What's a game of Pokemon if you don't have fun? While we can all get caught up in competitive spirit and the cliquier aspects of Smogon, the true reason all of us regularly visit this site is to have fun. I tried to encompass the more fun aspects of a metagame that people regard as stale and not fun within a team I created—the last team that I built during the BW2 era. I got the idea after hearing of a team that Vinc2612 used while defending the Smogon Frontier, with a weather trapper Heatran on a sand team. It was odd to me at first, but after hearing about how effective it was at removing rain, I decided to give it a shot.

The team fell together pretty naturally after I decided what to center it around. It's a bulky sand offense build that aims to remove all forms of opposing weather with Heatran and then pull off a sweep with either Breloom or Scizor in the mid-game. While both are slow, priority moves allow them to hit all the targets they need to beat. Once that's done, Keldeo cleans up. Latias and Hippowdon act as my failsafes against other weather builds, and Latias especially holds up extremely well against sun teams.

This thread also serves as my 1k, a testament to the amount of time that I spend on Smogon (hint: too much). I joined a bit over two years ago and have contributed here ever since. RMT was the first place on these forums that I was ever active in, so I thought posting an RMT would be a fun way to commemorate this benchmark!

The Team

Hippowdon @ Leftovers
Trait: Sand Stream
EVs: 248 HP / 232 Def / 16 SpD / 12 Spe
Impish Nature (+Def, -SpA)
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Whirlwind
- Slack Off

Hippowdon is a great catch-all Pokemon in BW. While it's often shunted in favor of the more versatile Tyranitar, it definitely has it's strengths. For one, Hippowdon is a great check to Terrakion, who still decimates with its Choice Band set. Additionally, it provides Stealth Rock support which is necessary if I aim to get a sweep going. Sand Stream, while it doesn't directly benefit my team, provides weather control, which is necessary on pretty much every successful BW2 team if you want to face up against rain and sun offense.

My moveset is pretty standard as far as defensive Pokemon go. I have Earthquake, which I only really use to take down Pokemon if I hit them super-effectively. Whirlwind provides a phaser and a last resort check to Volcarona, while it's also helpful against SubSD Terrakion and Dragon Dance Dragons, as I can't hit them. Slack Off provides the recovery Hippowdon needs in order to stick around all game, which sets it apart from all other weather summoners. My EV spread allows me to get maximum defensive prowess by hitting a jump point, while I also retain the ability to outpace all other Hippowdon that run 4 Speed (or 8 Speed in order to creep the 4 Speed Hippowdon!).

I finally get what you've been saying
Now that we're knee deep side by side
The storm clouds are circling above us
As we struggle against the tide


Heatran @ Passho Berry
Trait: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature (+Spe, -Atk)
- Sunny Day
- Magma Storm
- SolarBeam
- Hidden Power [Ice]

Trapper Heatran might seem a little out of place on this team, especially because you usually see it on sun teams, but it's very effective in removing Politoed, Jellicent, and other problematic Pokemon. This set is actually ridiculously useful and it lands me a lot of surprise KOs—most Water-type Pokemon on rain teams that would switch into Heatran are ruined by Magma Storm in conjugation with the Passho Berry and Sunny Day, and defensive Politoed, which is normally quite durable, is unable to break through Heatran. Offense Politoed is definitely more of a nuisance, but if I am able to land the Magma Storm hit, Choice Specs Hydro Pump won't even break through Heatran.

The moves are all pretty commonplace, though I have to admit that Hidden Power Ice doesn't see much use, especially with Salamence and Dragonite fading from popular usage; I do suppose Garchomp is always a great target to hit, though but I sacrifice the ability to attack Garchomp safely without an Air Balloon. Magma Storm is extremely useful in keeping Skarmory at bay, as bar a miss, it'll ensure Skarmory can only get one hazard on the field. If Skarmory switches out, the next Pokemon will take a heap of damage. Not being able to hit opposing Heatran is a bit of an annoyance, especially because most can hit back with Earth Power. However, Breloom, Keldeo, and Scizor (after a boost) are all good offensive checks to Heatran, and if I see an opposing Heatran on the other team, I will oftentimes go for a double switch rather than simply spamming Magma Storm.

I feel your grip firm on my shoulder
But this fear in my head won't subside
They patiently circle around us
As we hold out


Latias @ Leftovers
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 248 HP / 16 SpA / 244 Spe
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Calm Mind
- Recover
- Dragon Pulse
- Hidden Power [Fire]

Now that Hidden Power Fire Latias is no longer common, it's the perfect time to start playing with this set! Latias is a great failsafe against sun teams and it dismantles most common VoltTurn cores (though Landorus-T is still a nuisance). Additionally, Latias is great against opposing sun teams that carry Dugtrio. Heatran cannot be very helpful until Dugtrio is eliminated, so Latias can come out early and check most sun threats bar Volcarona. You might find it odd that I'm running 244 Speed EVs, but hitting 349 Speed is pretty arbitrary because you won't be able to beat any relevant threat, considering most Latios and Latias hit 350. 244 EVs guarantees that I beat out Terrakion, Keldeo, and Infernape, the next biggest threats.

Latias's sweeping ability is definitely hampered by rain, but I would still call it an effective Politoed check because it takes so little damage unless I'm facing a Modest Choice Specs set. Dragon Pulse has pretty good widespread coverage, and while Jirachi and can be a nuisance, I have Hippowdon to pick up there. As a precaution, never assume you can OHKO every Scizor or Ferrothorn you face, because a lot of the time you can't. Definitely weaken them a bit before attempting to go for the sweep. I've considered running a more defensive set, but I like the ability to outpace Terrakion too much to lose any Speed.

Oh father, why have they forsaken me?
You warned me that they would
Because it's passing down the bloodline
It's spoken and misunderstood


Breloom @ Life Orb / Focus Sash
Trait: Technician
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SpA)
- Spore
- Mach Punch
- Bullet Seed
- Swords Dance

Breloom is pretty fun to use in this metagame, and it's definitely one of the most useful Pokemon to use too due to Spore, which pretty much functions as an insta-KO bar the appearance of a Natural Cure wielder. The moveset is as standard as can be, with Swords Dance over Low Sweep because I like the ability to break out and sweep mid-game so that Keldeo has an easy time in the end-game. Mach Punch and Bullet Seed alone get most of the KOs that I need them to.

I've had trouble deciding between Life Orb and Focus Sash. On one hand, Life Orb makes Breloom all the more fearsome when I'm going for a sweep, while on the other hand, Focus Sash allows me to be more comfortable leading with Breloom against offensive teams. I generally go with a Life Orb because using Focus Sash Breloom on a sand team can be annoying, but there are times when I switch the item up. Perhaps someone can help me choose the superior item!

We're losing light
And strength of will
The darkened depths beckoning still
Then we hold on against the tide


Keldeo @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Justified
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature (+Spe, -Atk)
- Surf
- Hydro Pump
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Secret Sword

There was no other Pokemon that fit quite as well as Keldeo does on this team when I decided to add it, which was when I already had five Pokemon. I needed a powerful Choice Scarf user, but Keldeo gave me so much more. For one, it's a great answer to rain offense and it punishes the opponent for boosting my Surf. Additionally, it completes the FWG core with Heatran and Breloom, though honestly that's irrelevant because I don't switch too often. However, it's notable that I do have the synergy to switch out and preserve a Pokemon without weakening one of my walls.

Keldeo gets great coverage with just four moves. Hydro Pump isn't used that often, as I generally don't need the extra power by the time I bring Keldeo out unless I need to KO a weakened Reuniclus to begin cleaning. Surf is used much more often, as it gets STAB, can be powered up by rain should the opponent carry Politoed, and is just simply more reliable. Hidden Power Ice gives me an answer to Dragons that try to beat me through Dragon Dance, while Secret Sword covers the likes of Kyurem-B and Ferrothorn. It's not hard to see why Keldeo was considered a suspect twice given its overall great utility in the metagame!

Another storm you're left to fight alone
Remember son, you're reaping what you've sown
Under the waves we're sinking like a stone
I'm sorry son, you're reaping what you've sown


Scizor @ Flying Gem
Trait: Technician
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature (+Spe, -SpA)
- Swords Dance
- Acrobatics
- Bullet Punch
- Superpower

My team was a little bit weak to Jellicent and Tentacruel, as they block a Keldeo sweep and can spread status, so instead of going with a Choice Band Scizor, I chose to run a Flying Gem Acrobatics set. Scizor provides more than just a sweeper; it gives me a second Steel-type to handle Dragons—mainly Latios and Latias that are Choice-locked—and it provides important priority. I typically bring Scizor out in the mid-game to break holes in the opponent's team, but if I can nab more than one boost because of a bad prediction regard my Scizor's set, I'll take advantage of it and try to go for a full sweep.

Acrobatics with a Flying Gem works very well. While Jellicent and Tentacruel users are typically more cautious around Scizor nowadays because of this set, it still works pretty effectively, and there aren't very many Pokemon in OU that can handle Scizor regardless. Superpower hits Heatran and other Steel-types, and it can nab some damage against Skarmory before it uses Whirlwind. Bullet Punch is just important priority, and if I don't want to bring Keldeo out because I might give the opponent a setup opportunity, I'll either use Scizor or Breloom to take care of business.

You're reaping what you've sown
You're reaping what you've sown
You're reaping what you've sown
You're reaping what you've sown


Conclusion

Thanks for sticking with me through this RMT! The team itself is more of a fun team for me than anything. I haven't played any tournaments with it, though I've done fairly well on the PO ladder. Unlike other teams, I don't really have any different variations of the team, and it's stuck true to its original build throughout the time I've played with it. While it's balanced, it likes to be played as an offensive team, and switches are definitely not supposed to happen too often as you'll just lose your momentum. While sets might seem out of place, it's worked pretty cohesively for me!

By the way, the title is from my favorite song from the Celldweller album Blackstar. Below you can find my 1k shoutouts, as they're probably the only reason you viewed the RMT! I'm keeping it short for time's sake, but if you think I've forgotten you, just message me and I'll add you.

august: you seem to be one of the few people that comes here to have fun and i respect that a lot, that's probably why it's so fun to watch you play! wreckin it since 07
Azotal: while you're not really known at all around these parts, you're the one who cursed me by introducing me to competitive battling and this site. so fuck you. thanks for being a good friend over the years though! by the way, your 2 week pursuit of a badge that ended due to laziness shows a lot about your character :)
Bloo: you're seemingly everyone's best smogon friend but it's cool to have someone that i can talk to about irl matters since you seem to have a knack for knowing the right thing to do. of course making fun of dumb users with you has been one of the biggest reasons that i stuck around here, hope you're having fun at med school buddy
BKC: chicken!! i always assumed you were a cock before i met you because of all those random **scandals** in inside scoop but you're one of the coolest guys on smogon and i'm glad that we became friends. you're a great player and i'm definitely predicting either you or bloo to take it all in tour this year!
Ciele: cielery is cute n_n
CrashinBoomBang:
Delko: i always looked up to you when i was a littled badgeless user and you really guided me here in rmt. you convinced me to come back when i thought i wouldn't ever be a rater so thank you for that n_n you've constantly stuck up for me when things got rough here and despite not seeing you very much recently, you're still a good friend!
Dice:
dragonuser:
Eo Ut Mortus: while you don't know it, you pretty much taught me how to play this game a lot better than i used to when i joined team asia over a year ago. i used to rush through games but after going like 0-5 against you i slowed it down and got a lot better at risk vs reward so thanks for that n_n you are a nice fellow too and if i go to slu we will definitely partake in a tower of the french variety
Fiction.: introduced me to celldweller and brand new and probably a bunch of other shit i don't remember, keep me updated on tunes because you always seem to have the best music!
Foodking: yere mate

Funkasaurus: another one of my best buds on smogon! as you struggle to survive tormenting teachers, just know that i will always be here to distract you n_n
ginganinja:
Haunter:
Huntofthelion:
ium:
Jayde:
Jirachi: is QAHN. while he didn't give me a shoutout in his rmt, he is one of my best e-friends and came a long way in a short time period. a worthy fellow cute user!
Mafeking: one of my first good grammar friends on smogon who quit soon after he joined :( come back buddy
mostwanted: lol
Nachos:
Omicron: went through a lot with omi :o at first you kinda hated me for posting so much in c&c (and looking back, i can see why) but i guess we kinda bonded over gp and dream world. it was sad to see ya go but you're off doing bigger and better things
PDC:
PenguinX:
Pocket: Once upon a time there was a 60 year old man. He lived in Norway. Nobody knew his name,they all called him Pocketman. You probably ask why they called him pocket man, well i tell you why. He in a VERY wierd way rapes people. Believe me this story is true although its very wierd. He has been arrested in custody by the police now. He rapes everyone from a homofil to a pedofil. This is the way he does it: He wanders around the streets in a coap and a jeans pants. And when its very few people around the streets and he sees for example a littled kid boy or girl (it could be a grown up too) he says this: "hey boy i've hurt my hands a little bit can you pick up my cellphone from my pocket" the boy says:"sure thing man" The boy put his hand in the guys pocket. and he feels like the pocket is too long, and when he comes to the buttom of the ocket he feels something yucky(the pocketmans dick). And pocketman takes a knife from his other wallet stabs the kid and rapes him. Believe me i'm norwegian and its true over 2,000 people have been raped by this man. This thread might seem totally NON INTERESTING but i'm bored and i just wanna say this. reply your thoughts about this man or write your own story about the subject. submitted by The Undertaker
PttP:
ShakeItUp:
sirndpt:
Stone_Cold:
tab: is cute!! oddly enough, he's a driving force around rmt even though he appears to be lazy n_n
Trinitrotoluene:
VN.:

(will fill these in as I go n_n)
 
sup harsha,

consider focus punch instead of swords dance on breloom. i find loom is more effective as a wallbreaker than a sweeper, especially when you lead with it as often as you do, and fp is really good at hurting shit on the switch (most notable example is smashing lati@s for keldeo to sweep more easily lategame). speaking of lati@s, opposing cm hp fire latias arent very common but in the rare scenario that one shows up you could be in a lot of trouble. as you said yourself hp ice on heatran doesnt see much use, toxic might be more useful since latias usually uses offensive tran as setup fodder. its also nice against dd gyarados trying to set up on tran since gyara can potentially wreck your shit, you have to make sure sand + sr are up, bait bounce with latias and whirlwind it with hippo, but that doesnt always work obviously. its made a lot easier if its put on a timer.

first like, great team, lookin forward to the shoutout!

against the tiiiiiiiiiide~
 
sup harsha,

consider focus punch instead of swords dance on breloom. i find loom is more effective as a wallbreaker than a sweeper, especially when you lead with it as often as you do, and fp is really good at hurting shit on the switch (most notable example is smashing lati@s for keldeo to sweep more easily lategame). speaking of lati@s, opposing cm hp fire latias arent very common but in the rare scenario that one shows up you could be in a lot of trouble. as you said yourself hp ice on heatran doesnt see much use, toxic might be more useful since latias usually uses offensive tran as setup fodder. its also nice against dd gyarados trying to set up on tran since gyara can potentially wreck your shit, you have to make sure sand + sr are up, bait bounce with latias and whirlwind it with hippo, but that doesnt always work obviously. its made a lot easier if its put on a timer.

first like, great team, lookin forward to the shoutout!

against the tiiiiiiiiiide~
All of these are good ideas (as expected of course :heart:), I really like the Toxic suggestion especially because I rarely find myself needing Hidden Power Ice. Breloom does enough damage as it is without Swords Dance so I'll definitely go with the Focus Punch suggestion, hitting "counters" with an effective 225 BP move on the switch sounds like a ton of fun early on, especially because I can play mind games with Spore.

Thanks for the rate dude n_n

harsha posting a team dedicated to keeping sand up as much as possible

is anyone really surprised
No :pirate:
 

Jirachee

phoenix reborn
is a Forum Moderatoris a Tiering Contributoris a Top Tutor Alumnusis a Tournament Director Alumnusis a Top Team Rater Alumnusis a Senior Staff Member Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Dedicated Tournament Host Alumnus
hey harsha, dumb cunt

The problem with using Hippowdon on this team is that it gives Latios a ton of free switch ins and your Scizor can take as much as 86% from a DM while Heatran takes over 50 from DM and is 2HKOed by Surf through Passho (without it it would actually OHKO). You could set up Scizor on it I guess but your set is ridiculously easy to stop thanks to an awfully weak Bullet Punch. I would recommend using a Pursuiter on this team, as you may know, Keldeo and Breloom usually work very well with them. I think that a Choice Scarf Tyranitar would do very well over your current Heatran. It is an excellent check to Latios as well as Gengar, another Pokemon that can dick your team. Tyranitar can remove almost every Psychic type that would try to stop a Breloom + Keldeo sweep, making it a strong partner. Also, it has Sand Stream, so having 2 Sand Streamers will help you win the weather war, which is why you were using Heatran, I guess.

Also, like BKC said, your team looks pretty weak to Gyarados. Using Icy Wind + Hidden Power Electric on Keldeo fixes this issue, even though Icy Wind is not a very good move on the Scarf set. I think you should drop Hydro Pump for it, as without Rain you can't abuse the insanely strong power it provides and Surf is very often enough for cleans, although you might have a harder time RKing Garchomp then.

To be fair I don't think you're in big need for HP Fire on Latias, and I think the Substitute set is much superior, since it takes advantage of what Latias is truly good at, being setting up a ton of Calm Minds. Ferrothorn shouldn't be that big of an issue with 2 Fighting types, and you can scout for Pursuit Scizor using Substitute anyway.

Also, you shouldn't try to be faster than other Hippowdons, as if they phaze you before you phaze them, you have a great chance of going to Latias, Breloom or Keldeo, and all of those are going to own the opponent's Hippo.

Here's the set you should use:

Tyranitar @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 SAtk
Hasty Nature
- Crunch
- Pursuit
- Superpower
- Ice Beam
ps: I think Tyranitar is a perfect suggestion as it's my favourite Pokemon and you're my best friend here n_n


Good luck, your attitude reminds me of a (BAN ME PLEASE) which I hate w/ passion:toast:
 
hey harsha, dumb cunt

The problem with using Hippowdon on this team is that it gives Latios a ton of free switch ins and your Scizor can take as much as 86% from a DM while Heatran takes over 50 from DM and is 2HKOed by Surf through Passho (without it it would actually OHKO). You could set up Scizor on it I guess but your set is ridiculously easy to stop thanks to an awfully weak Bullet Punch. I would recommend using a Pursuiter on this team, as you may know, Keldeo and Breloom usually work very well with them. I think that a Choice Scarf Tyranitar would do very well over your current Heatran. It is an excellent check to Latios as well as Gengar, another Pokemon that can dick your team. Tyranitar can remove almost every Psychic type that would try to stop a Breloom + Keldeo sweep, making it a strong partner. Also, it has Sand Stream, so having 2 Sand Streamers will help you win the weather war, which is why you were using Heatran, I guess.

Also, like BKC said, your team looks pretty weak to Gyarados. Using Icy Wind + Hidden Power Electric on Keldeo fixes this issue, even though Icy Wind is not a very good move on the Scarf set. I think you should drop Hydro Pump for it, as without Rain you can't abuse the insanely strong power it provides and Surf is very often enough for cleans, although you might have a harder time RKing Garchomp then.

To be fair I don't think you're in big need for HP Fire on Latias, and I think the Substitute set is much superior, since it takes advantage of what Latias is truly good at, being setting up a ton of Calm Minds. Ferrothorn shouldn't be that big of an issue with 2 Fighting types, and you can scout for Pursuit Scizor using Substitute anyway.

Also, you shouldn't try to be faster than other Hippowdons, as if they phaze you before you phaze them, you have a great chance of going to Latias, Breloom or Keldeo, and all of those are going to own the opponent's Hippo.

Here's the set you should use:

Tyranitar @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 SAtk
Hasty Nature
- Crunch
- Pursuit
- Superpower
- Ice Beam
ps: I think Tyranitar is a perfect suggestion as it's my favourite Pokemon and you're my best friend here n_n


Good luck, your attitude reminds me of a (BAN ME PLEASE) which I hate w/ passion:toast:
Yeah it's definitely true that Choice Specs Latios gets a good amount of switch-ins given that I have no real checks to it—I've generally just let it switch in, KO something, and then played from there because the momentum switched, but I'll give Tyranitar a shot. I love Heatran but having two sand streamers would give me a good amount of weather control anyways so it's worth a shot!

The Keldeo suggestion is probably for the best, Icy Wind will KO the relevant Dragons after a bit of sand damage just like Hidden Power Ice would anyways, and added insurance against Gyarados is always nice. The Hippowdon EV suggestion is true, I hadn't thought about how much my team sets up on Hippowdon anyways, so I'll go with that.

Thank you for the rate friend n_n you still haven't given me a shoutout though :pirate:
 

Jukain

!_!
is a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
complete and utter garbage

fuck you harsha

in all seriousness, this team is good. it has most of your bases covered. unfortunately, though, you're kinda eh against special dragons, specifically latios and latias. your steel-types aren't bulky enough to handle their onslaught, and with keldeo being extremely limited by them, it's hard for your team to function in the presence of them. also, ddnite can screw you over, considering scizor is basically 2hkoed by a +1 outrage.

i don't think there are many easy ways to fix this per se. i'm gonna go out and recommend a scarftar in the slot of heatran, like jirachi did, to handle this. this kind of sand typically destroys rain, so i don't think you need a dedicated weather trapper. heatran isn't a high utility pokemon here anyways. it can't set up rocks, relies on magma storm to do jack shit damage, and is thus almost worthless against non-rain teams. rain teams are common, but i don't think they pose such a massive threat to your team in any aspect. in fact, you can screw them over with keldeo if you lose the weather war. it's pretty obvious that you need the special defense also -- to handle the latis.

furthermore, tar can pursuit, eliminating annoying mons like gar and alakazam that could cause some serious damage. this is simply excellent for a team lacking in quick-and-fast responses to said threats. what better than a pokemon that takes pittance from their main stab and can eliminate them from play entirely?

a weather back-up eliminates the need for heatran entirely too. ttar's function as a weather back-up gives you some security in that if hippo goes it's not all over. you can also play ttar a little more aggressively -- almost recklessly, but you don't want to waste it. with two weather starters, you can play hippo and ttar as pokemon, and not constantly worry about protecting them.

another aspect of scarftar is naturally the revenge killer one. you don't want to rely on keldeo. it is, in many cases, your in-game win condition, your cleaner. you can't afford it dying too easily. however, revenge killing duties are important, and splitting them up is a great way to preserve your win condition. ttar is an effective revenge killer in some aspects that keldeo is not; the ability to handle the latis is massive, and then you have starmie, etc.

all in all, scarftar is a fantastic mon that fits so absurdly well onto this team that i without any doubt endorse you run it heavily.

run: jirachi's set. i was gonna suggest the same set, so there you go. just more reason to pick it!

alright, now for a minor change. jolly is getting more and more eh on scizor. it's just many tenta are running speed, lando-t are running speed...the utility of jolly just isn't there. i recommend switching jolly to adamant, which gives you a much-appreciated power boost on an otherwise slightly unimpressive attacker. i really can't give you much in the way of specific calcs, but the power of your hits is greatly increased, while the speed is almost useless. adamant is just all-around better.

okay, as far as breloom: i second bkc's focus punch + fighting gem suggestion. it just seems the obvious choice for a big hitter.

- heatran -> scarftar

- jolly -> adamant on scizor

- seconding bkc on focus punch + fighting gem > swords dance + life orb / focus sash on breloom.


good luck!
 

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 1, Guests: 0)

Top