Resource AG Viability Rankings

I think you pretty much answered your own question. Along with dragon dance Zygarde, Zekrom, Groudon, Xerneas, and the list goes on.
What I meant, was whether Ditto deserves a S in virtue of being able to ignore sticky web and get the boosts of the enemy. If it has scarf, and if the enemy doesn’t have a scarf, ditto will probably beat them.
 

Icemaster

Few will truly understand.
is a Contributor to Smogonis a Community Leader Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
Not too happy with the AG VR so I will make some nominations. I think it is pretty bad to have so many S rank threats when in practice that is really not the case (with S-, or A+ even being a better descriptor for many of them).

Drops:
Remove S+: I don't believe Yveltal or Calyrex are that much better than everything else in S such that there should be a seperate S rank.

:Calyrex-Shadow: S+ -> S-: 2nd, DITTO, Sucker Punch Yveltal etc are ran sufficiently enough that Life Orb Calyrex sets are not S+ level right now. Specs struggles even more so in that regard, and Scarf faces severe competition from Ditto on a team (I would only recommend scarf calyrrex if aroma support is required and for its sometimes useful sweeping ability. The best sets are sash and colbur NP but those still struggle with ditto, with the former being locked onto HO - not indicative on an S+ level threat. Sub/NP passing sets are great too, but I think this is more by virtue of the recipient (more on that later...)

:Yveltal: S+ -> 1st in S: as above

:Gothitelle: A -> B-: Tell me the last time you managed to fit this on a good team... and NDM / Eternatus aren't even safe traps anymore often with the sets people run, and other pokemon are even tougher to trap.

:Eternatus: S -> S- 3rd: if S+ is removed this only makes sense. It never quite manages to do what it needs to do - it often comes short as a kyogre / marsh check (pretty much doesn't do the latter). Good status and knock absorber though, and can soften the opposing team up, but its traits aren't indicative of an S rank threat imo. Offensive eternatus is good - but not that good. However it's still needed on every team, because what it does do is pretty vital.

:Kyogre: S- -> A+, 1st: It solos some endgames, but choice sets are not that great imo due to how hard they are to fit, defensive sets can end up useless in some games depending on their eternatus, or if they have ferro/bliss, it can become setup fodder for scarier threats like Xerneas or Zygarde when asleep or unboosted, and if running only scald on a defensive set it doesn't have that many defensive feats, unlike Xerneas or Zygarde. Offensive Dynamax isn't that great either - relies quite heavily on their team being slow.

:Zygarde-Complete: S -> A+, last: Xerneas is better. Relies on Dynamax a bit too much (yes, even more than Xerneas!), and defensive sets are pretty extinct tbh.

:Blissey: :Chansey: :Lunala: All to B. Passive never wins the game - at least not nearly as much as these guys' ranks suggest - you are fucked if their sweepers are teched for it, or aren't the mons you expected, these guys are the kings of passive/slow team.

:Groudon: A+ -> A, nothing's changed, but the pokemon being moved down are quite a bit better than it.

:Marshadow: A -> A- top, too reliant on dynamax to break, CB is terrible, its speed controlling abilities are good but nowhere near ditto, and slightly worse than calyrex level.

Rises:
:Zacian-Crowned: S- -> S 2nd: Better than everything in S- in my rankings, doesn't require dynamax to break, very very good defensively.

:Xerneas: A+ -> S-, 3rd in S-: Best sweeper in the game - this alone should put it in S- (Zygarde was ranked there and it is not the best sweeper). Forces Dynamax without dynamaxing itself, is impossible to 1v1 with the use of dynamax on both sides, has very very good defensive utility (if you respect offensive yveltal and zygarde). Can completely flip some HO MUs by itself.

:Slurpuff: B+ -> C, :Shuckle: C+ -> D,, :Galvantula: D -> A, Webs HO is one of the main 3 archetypes for good reason, it is broken. Its main leads should thus be ranked highly. Slurpuff is better than shuckle by a bit, but they both get absolutely skoomed by a smart player with one of DD NDM / Zek / Xern / Zygarde / CM Ogre. Galvantula is very underrated - it is like the only HO lead which won't get fucked by a lead Zekrom, Zygarde or Xerneas (use Toxic, String Shot, Thunder, Webs).

:Necrozma-Dusk-Mane: S- -> 1st in S: Required on nearly all teams (and if you use Quagsire you should use offensive NDM imo, it is fantastic). DD defensive is broken (and can vary its moves more than people thing, psyfangs, stone edge are all good on it to break past the things that trouble it), it is also a staple on HO.

:Ho-Oh: A+: Very very good defogger, enables offensive yveltal, can beat Xerneas, has a very good offensive / statusing (chipping down teams) presence much like Eternatus. Very hard to take down, good pivot. TWave, BBird, Adamant with Max Attack can solo some teams by itself. In fact, when preparing some of the checks I do are "do they autolose to Ho-Oh, or to Zekrom, or to Ferrothorn, or to Groudon, or to Ditto, or to HO"... etc.

:Ditto: A+ -> S-, 3rd, as above - it counters webs and all forms of HO nicely. Counters Balances that rely on breakers that are most weak to it. If we are ranking Xerneas, Zacian-C, Calyrex-S, Zyg so highly then Ditto has to be ranked very highly too. Beats a huge number of premier threats - can force out and potentially sweeps by copying: Calyrex-S, Zacian-C, Zygarde, Xerneas, forces out: Marshadow, Offensive Yveltal (Dynamax depleted), Offensive Eternatus, Offensive NDM (Dynamax depleted - sufficient ratio of attack:defense). Literally always useful, and trivialises some MUs.

I'm not too concerned about the lower ranks, but perhaps Magnezone (Special thunder set with custap to trap zacian C and Magnezone), Landorus I (Faster swords dance than yveltal, can bluff special sets or actually use them too), and Chansey (should be ranked alongside or above blissey) should be included too.

Nobody uses Dracovish, it's not good enough over Specs Kyogre. D rank.
Nobody uses Mewtwo, it's not good enough over Calyrex-S or Eternatus. D rank.
Tapu Fini doesn't deserve to be ranked.

That is a lot of changes so to help this is what it would look like if all noms passed

S
Necrozma-Dusk-Mane
Zacian-Crowned
Yveltal

S-
Ditto
Calyrex-Shadow-Rider
Xerneas
Eternatus

A+
Kyogre
Ho-Oh
Zygarde C

A
Groudon
Galvantula
Ferroskoom

A-
Marshadow
Zekrom

B
Lunala
Blissey
Chansey
Tyranitar

B-
Tyranitar
Gothitelle
Calyrex-I
Excadrill

C+
Butterfree
Kyurem-W
Rayquaza

C
Slurpuff
Cloyster
Darm G
Landorus-I
Magnezone

C-
Kyurem-B
Pheromosa
Shedinja
Toxapex


D
Dialga
Dracovish
Dugtrio
Galvantula
Heatran
Lycanroc
Magearna
Mewtwo
Palkia
Porygon2
Reshiram
Shuckle
Skarmory



thanks for reading
 
Last edited:
Not too happy with the AG VR so I will make some nominations. I think it is pretty bad to have so many S rank threats when in practice that is really not the case (with S-, or A+ even being a better descriptor for many of them).

Drops:
Remove S+: I don't believe Yveltal or Calyrex are that much better than everything else in S such that there should be a seperate S rank.

:Calyrex-Shadow: S+ -> S-: 3rd, DITTO, Marshadow, Sucker Punch Yveltal etc are ran sufficiently enough that Life Orb Calyrex sets are not S+ level right now. Specs struggles even more so in that regard, and Scarf faces severe competition from Ditto on a team (I would only recommend scarf calyrrex if aroma support is required and for its sometimes useful sweeping ability. The best sets are sash and colbur NP but those still struggle with ditto, with the former being locked onto HO - not indicative on an S+ level threat. Sub/NP passing sets are great too, but I think this is more by virtue of the recipient (more on that later...)

:Yveltal: S+ -> 1st in S: as above

:Gothitelle: A -> B-: Tell me the last time you managed to fit this on a good team... and NDM / Eternatus aren't even safe traps anymore often with the sets people run, and other pokemon are even tougher to trap.

:Eternatus: S -> S- 2nd: if S+ is removed this only makes sense. It never quite manages to do what it needs to do - it often comes short as a kyogre / marsh check (pretty much doesn't do the latter). Good status and knock absorber though, and can soften the opposing team up, but its traits aren't indicative of an S rank threat imo. Offensive eternatus is good - but not that good. However it's still needed on every team, because what it does do is pretty vital.

:Kyogre: S- -> A+, 1st: It solos some endgames, but choice sets are not that great imo due to how hard they are to fit, defensive sets can end up useless in some games depending on their eternatus, or if they have ferro/bliss, it can become setup fodder for scarier threats like Xerneas or Zygarde when asleep or unboosted, and if running only scald on a defensive set it doesn't have that many defensive feats, unlike Xerneas or Zygarde. Offensive Dynamax isn't that great either - relies quite heavily on their team being slow.

:Zygarde-Complete: S -> A+, last: Xerneas is better. Relies on Dynamax a bit too much (yes, even more than Xerneas!), and defensive sets are pretty extinct tbh.

:Blissey: :Chansey: :Lunala: All to B. Passive never wins the game - at least not nearly as much as these guys' ranks suggest - you are fucked if their sweepers are teched for it, or aren't the mons you expected, these guys are the kings of passive/slow team.

:Groudon: A+ -> A, nothing's changed, but the pokemon being moved down are quite a bit better than it.

:Marshadow: A -> A- top, too reliant on dynamax to break, CB is terrible, its speed controlling abilities are good but nowhere near ditto, and slightly worse than calyrex level.

Rises:
:Zacian-Crowned: S- -> S 3rd: Better than everything in S- in my rankings, doesn't require dynamax to break, very very good defensively.

:Xerneas: A+ -> S-, 1st in S-: Best sweeper in the game - this alone should put it in S- (Zygarde was ranked there and it is not the best sweeper). Forces Dynamax without dynamaxing itself, is impossible to 1v1 with the use of dynamax on both sides, has very very good defensive utility (if you respect offensive yveltal and zygarde). Can completely flip some HO MUs by itself.

:Slurpuff: B+ -> A-, :Shuckle: C+ -> A-, (both bottom of A-), :Galvantula: D -> B, Webs HO is one of the main 3 archetypes for good reason, it is broken. Its main leads should thus be ranked highly. Slurpuff is better than shuckle by a bit. Galvantula is very underrated - it is like the only HO lead which won't get fucked by a lead Zekrom, Zygarde or Xerneas (use Toxic, String Shot, Thunder, Webs).

:Necrozma-Dusk-Mane: S- -> 2nd in S: Required on nearly all teams (and if you use Quagsire you should use offensive NDM imo, it is fantastic). DD defensive is broken (and can vary its moves more than people thing, psyfangs, stone edge are all good on it to break past the things that trouble it), it is also a staple on HO.

:Ho-Oh: Top of A: Very very good defogger, enables offensive yveltal, can beat Xerneas, has a very good offensive / statusing (chipping down teams) presence much like Eternatus. Very hard to take down, good pivot. TWave, BBird, Adamant with Max Attack can solo some teams by itself. In fact, when preparing some of the checks I do are "do they autolose to Ho-Oh, or to Zekrom, or to Ferrothorn, or to Groudon, or to Ditto, or to HO"... etc.

:Ditto: A+ -> S-, 3rd, as above - it counters webs and all forms of HO nicely. Counters Balances that rely on breakers that are most weak to it. If we are ranking Xerneas, Zacian-C, Calyrex-S, Zyg so highly then Ditto has to be ranked very highly too. Beats a huge number of premier threats - can force out and potentially sweeps by copying: Calyrex-S, Zacian-C, Zygarde, Xerneas, forces out: Marshadow, Offensive Yveltal (Dynamax depleted), Offensive Eternatus, Offensive NDM (Dynamax depleted - sufficient ratio of attack:defense). Literally always useful, and trivialises some MUs.

I'm not too concerned about the lower ranks, but perhaps Magnezone (Special thunder set with custap to trap zacian C and Magnezone), Landorus I (Faster swords dance than yveltal, can bluff special sets or actually use them too), and Chansey (should be ranked alongside or above blissey) should be included too.

That is a lot of changes so to help this is what it would look like if all noms passed (only changes included, and A- rank and above.):

S
Yveltal
Necrozma-Dusk-Mane
Zacian-Crowned

S-
Xerneas
Ditto
Calyrex-Shadow-Rider
Eternatus

A+
Kyogre
Zygarde C

A
Ho-Oh
Groudon
Ferroskoom

A-
Marshadow
Zekrom
Slurpuff
Shuckle

B
Lunala
Blissey
Chansey

B-
Gothitelle

C
Landorus-I
Magnezone



thanks for reading
There is a glaring lack of Luxray and Chandelure. Bad noms. 0/10
 
Remember Obstagoon?

:xy/heliolisk: UR -> D


Heliolisk, while niche, is an interesting option. It can check Kyogre and choiced Caly-S in a pinch, while also maintaining momentum with Volt Switch (unlike Gastrodon or Blissey). Additionally, it's not that weak; Choice Specs Thunder coming off of a base 109 Special Attack can leave a serious dent in the two resident Flying-types (Ho-oh and Yveltal), while obvious switch-ins such as Groudon or Zygarde take over 55% from a well-predicted Hyper Voice. Finally, Focus Blast hits Ferrothorn for over 65%, deterring it from switching in.

Of course, it has a lot of things against it. Ground-types utterly invalidate mispredicts, while SpDef Eternatus and Necrozma-DM don't mind anything thrown at it. In fact, it is incredibly prediction-reliant to deal any sorts of damage. Additionally, its Speed tier, while decent, is vulnerable to things such as Zacian-C, Eternatus, and Marshadow. It also comes with a huge amount of opportunity cost, which is why it is in the D-rank.

However, give Heliolisk a try for a good Kyogre check!


252 SpA Choice Specs Heliolisk Thunder vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Kyogre: 356-420 (104.3 - 123.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
----------------------------
252 SpA Choice Specs Heliolisk Thunder vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Yveltal: 482-570 (122.6 - 145%) -- guaranteed OHKO

----------------------------
252 SpA Choice Specs Heliolisk Hyper Voice vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Groudon: 213-252 (62.4 - 73.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
----------------------------
252 SpA Choice Specs Heliolisk Hyper Voice vs. 16 HP / 0 SpD Zygarde: 204-240 (56.5 - 66.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
----------------------------
252 SpA Choice Specs Heliolisk Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Ferrothorn: 226-266 (64.2 - 75.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

DISCLAIMER: This post was made after I entered the loser's bracket of the AG Open. Please don't judge me.
 
Last edited:
Remember Obstagoon?

:xy/heliolisk: UR -> D


Heliolisk, while niche, is an interesting option. It can check Kyogre and choiced Caly-S in a pinch, while also maintaining momentum with Volt Switch (unlike Gastrodon or Blissey). Additionally, it's not that weak; Choice Specs Thunder coming off of a base 109 Special Attack can leave a serious dent in the two resident Flying-types (Ho-oh and Yveltal), while obvious switch-ins such as Groudon or Zygarde take over 55% from a well-predicted Hyper Voice. Finally, Focus Blast hits Ferrothorn for over 65%, deterring it from switching in.

Of course, it has a lot of things against it. Ground-types utterly invalidate mispredicts, while SpDef Eternatus and Necrozma-DM don't mind anything thrown at it. In fact, it is incredibly prediction-reliant to deal any sorts of damage. Additionally, its Speed tier, while decent, is vulnerable to things such as Zacian-C, Eternatus, and Marshadow. It also comes with a huge amount of opportunity cost, which is why it is in the D-rank.

However, give Heliolisk a try for a good Kyogre check!


252 SpA Choice Specs Heliolisk Thunder vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Kyogre: 356-420 (104.3 - 123.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
----------------------------
252 SpA Choice Specs Heliolisk Thunder vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Yveltal: 482-570 (122.6 - 145%) -- guaranteed OHKO

----------------------------
252 SpA Choice Specs Heliolisk Hyper Voice vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Groudon: 213-252 (62.4 - 73.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
----------------------------
252 SpA Choice Specs Heliolisk Hyper Voice vs. 16 HP / 0 SpD Zygarde: 204-240 (56.5 - 66.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
----------------------------
252 SpA Choice Specs Heliolisk Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Ferrothorn: 226-266 (64.2 - 75.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

DISCLAIMER: This post was made after I entered the loser's bracket of the AG Open. Please don't judge me.
I tried Heliolisk once. Made the grave mistake of bringing it in a tour vs Skarph. It didn’t serve me well. It’s a bad mon.
 

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 1, Guests: 1)

Top