Metagame AG Metagame Discussion

Geysers

Who's gonna drown in your blue sea?
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:ss/Sandaconda-gmax: :ss/centiskorch-gmax:
One thing I’m surprised about is the lack of discussion on Sandaconda and Centiskorch, particularly their G-Max moves. These 2 have G-Max moves that are essentially upgraded versions of Sand Tomb and Fire Spin respectfully.
However, what many people don’t know is that those effects remain even if the user switches out. Basically, Sandaconda/Centiskorch can Dynamax, use their respective G-max move, hopefully hit something passive and without ways to escape, and then switch out to a set up sweeper.
With Grip Claw, you can have 6 whole turns being able to do what ever you want while what ever was trapped takes 7/8th of damage from being trapped.
the reason nobody talks about these mons is because they suck. Neither of them is bulky enough or has reliable-enough recovery to do anything useful. While it's a cool concept to trap things and go out to a setup sweeper, the reality is that since you expended your dyna in order to get the trapping effect in place, you're going to seriously struggle to get much mileage out of your sweeper since your opponent has defensive dyna available to them. For instance, if you expend your dyna to trap, say, a defensive NDM, then switch out to, say, a swords dance Groudon, the opponent can just dyna their NDM and win the 1v1. Also, having to commit a whole team slot to these trapping gimmicks can severely hamstring your ability to have any sort of useful offensive presence, given that three slots are already taken up by the obligatory defensive core.

tl;dr: having to use your dyna for this sucks since it limits your sweeping options
 
For instance, if you expend your dyna to trap, say, a defensive NDM, then switch out to, say, a swords dance Groudon, the opponent can just dyna their NDM and win the 1v1
There are a few problems with this example.
First one is that even Defensive Necrozma-DM takes a huge chunk from an uninvested G-Max Sandblast, even with its ability.
0 Atk Sandaconda-Gmax G-Max Sandblast vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Prism Armor Necrozma-Dusk-Mane: 136-162 (34.1 - 40.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after trapping damage
Necrozma is already at least 46.6%, not including hazards either. Centiskorch would straight up 2HKO Necrozma after Trapping Damage+some hazards, even if they Dynamaxed.
252+ Atk Centiskorch-Gmax G-Max Centiferno vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Prism Armor Necrozma-Dusk-Mane: 195-231 (48.9 - 58%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock and 1 layer of Spikes
Possible damage amounts: (195, 198, 199, 202, 204, 207, 208, 211, 213, 216, 217, 220, 222, 225, 226, 231)
195+24+49+49 = 317, 398 - 317 = 81
Second would be the fact that you also more than likely wasted your opponent’s Dynamax on something more passive and probably dead due to Trapping damage. You got to remember that Necrozma is taking 1/8th damage (or 1/6th damage) for several turns. With Binding Band or Grip Claw, it’s basically on the verge of death without Morning Sun once the trapping ends.
Third is that you are just restrict yourself in the scenario to just a Groudon using just Sword Dance. If you’re using such a strategy, you would rather use something that can boost a bunch of times to become nearly unstoppable. Like your own Necrozma-DM paired with Sandaconda+Grip Claw as an example.

But I think that overlooking this would be like overlooking Gothitelle getting something like Quiver Dance+Astral Barrage+680 BST boost+could use 2 abilities, but only with a nerfed version of Stag as a second ability while foreiting Dynamax and a team slot.
 
There are a few problems with this example.
First one is that even Defensive Necrozma-DM takes a huge chunk from an uninvested G-Max Sandblast, even with its ability.
0 Atk Sandaconda-Gmax G-Max Sandblast vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Prism Armor Necrozma-Dusk-Mane: 136-162 (34.1 - 40.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after trapping damage
Necrozma is already at least 46.6%, not including hazards either. Centiskorch would straight up 2HKO Necrozma after Trapping Damage+some hazards, even if they Dynamaxed.
252+ Atk Centiskorch-Gmax G-Max Centiferno vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Prism Armor Necrozma-Dusk-Mane: 195-231 (48.9 - 58%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock and 1 layer of Spikes
Possible damage amounts: (195, 198, 199, 202, 204, 207, 208, 211, 213, 216, 217, 220, 222, 225, 226, 231)
195+24+49+49 = 317, 398 - 317 = 81
Second would be the fact that you also more than likely wasted your opponent’s Dynamax on something more passive and probably dead due to Trapping damage. You got to remember that Necrozma is taking 1/8th damage (or 1/6th damage) for several turns. With Binding Band or Grip Claw, it’s basically on the verge of death without Morning Sun once the trapping ends.
Third is that you are just restrict yourself in the scenario to just a Groudon using just Sword Dance. If you’re using such a strategy, you would rather use something that can boost a bunch of times to become nearly unstoppable. Like your own Necrozma-DM paired with Sandaconda+Grip Claw as an example.

But I think that overlooking this would be like overlooking Gothitelle getting something like Quiver Dance+Astral Barrage+680 BST boost+could use 2 abilities, but only with a nerfed version of Stag as a second ability while foreiting Dynamax and a team slot.
The problem with all this is any Pokemon that can live a move and kill the attacker back would be viable if this was the case and they are both pretty much walled or damaged heavily by any version of Kyogre or Zygarde and investing in attack over physdef+hp wouldn't even give Centiskorch the ability to soft check most formes of Zacian and Sandaconda really can only truly threaten things with glare which Zygarde does better and even Zygarde can run trapper sets that are pretty much just Gmax Sandaconda without using your Dmax. These calcs also don't really show much because you aren't showing calcs or even showing the full sets of these mons for us to even consider these unused mons as viable. What geysers said above is completely true and no calcs or replays can really prove otherwise as if they did these mons would have already been explored and used in some important tour games by now. Also the calcs vs DM are what assurance Zacian/Zac+goth or any physical or special breaker can do already and pretty unnecessary because of how the vast majority of the metagame can already beat ndm in 1v1s or completely wall it off and boost on it. It's nice to see people trying new mons but these two forced to use your 3 turns of dynamax to do anything reasonable is just not worth it and very easily outclassed by Ho-Oh or Zygarde. Hope this helped
 
So. I've begun learning AG, and see Gothitelle as an amazing pokemon. Even if you know what it does, you can't rly stop it unless you use Taunt, pokemon that alr counter it or incredibly niche options just to prevent it from trapping an important pokemon - such as NDM or Blissey. And uh, if you use your max to break it, why? That just wastes your dynamax. Anyway here's my team
https://pokepast.es/7018b606a6b63e42 with the help of the Anything Goes PS! chat room as well as my minimal prior experience, I have my team. Fully abusing trapping alongside multiple wall breakers and offensive sweepers. Now then - time to hop on the AG ladder. And with all that being said, goodbye.

Edit: I now have a few replays to share with you to go along with the team
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8anythinggoes-1638884593-c1azefizi8vkly0wuafx95i85cqjsrfpw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8anythinggoes-1638897662-etbzbxdqwb31fp0taq03jrywi8b8tdqpw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8anythinggoes-1638906996
 
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Team Update: now looking for a Caly-S answer.
:sm/calyrex-shadow:
As of rn my team is at high 1400 elo. Every time I faced a Caly-S, I lost. Even when I was going to win, Grim Neigh shenanigans lost me the match. You could argue I'm being a bit salty, but I still need an answer to it nonetheless. If anything it has to go in the Xerneas slot because I usually don't use it in a match outside of a endgame scenario. I cat switch into it and I can't switch out of it cause I risk it being... Idk - Nasty Plot, Scarf + Trick or Specs. Lemme know any suggestions you guys may have. And with all that being said, goodbye.

https://pokepast.es/f46d6d932be914e3 (team for reference)
 
Team Update: now looking for a Caly-S answer.
:sm/calyrex-shadow:
As of rn my team is at high 1400 elo. Every time I faced a Caly-S, I lost. Even when I was going to win, Grim Neigh shenanigans lost me the match. You could argue I'm being a bit salty, but I still need an answer to it nonetheless. If anything it has to go in the Xerneas slot because I usually don't use it in a match outside of a endgame scenario. I cat switch into it and I can't switch out of it cause I risk it being... Idk - Nasty Plot, Scarf + Trick or Specs. Lemme know any suggestions you guys may have. And with all that being said, goodbye.

https://pokepast.es/f46d6d932be914e3 (team for reference)
Yveltal should be your main Calyrex answer. I’d switch your EVs to be full specially defensive, and you might consider swapping taunt with sucker punch.
 
Been playing on the ladder for six months with no tourny experience. I focus on consistency against the ladder and just use YEN+Ditto+2 defensive mons. Basically I just stall or stall-break until my opponent loses patience and my ditto used Zacian\Caly-S to sweep them out. Ive gotten half a dozen 30-0 1700 rated names but cant find a fun team to make progress against the top100. Its like Trick Room with Dracovish is the only way to beat YEN-stall and it sucks to play.

The metagame is mind numbingly stale in the 1700s+ zone. Its the whole dancing around with NDM putting rocks and Yveltal defogging them off. You bring off-beat offensive threats and hope for MU fishing. Ugh I hate gen8.

Rando opinions:
Sleep is insane and makes Ferro extremely good. Hazard stack wins games.

Yveltal is insanely OP offensively if you can find a Caly-S answer to free it up, or just use dual black birds. Ive used 252 SpA\252 SpD with AV and just keep spamming that oblivion wing to regen.

Minimize Clef is extremely annoying and almost necessitates a Smart Strike user to avoid wasting your dynamax hitting it.

Hot take: Caly-S is just bad. Its so over prepared for it feels like an uphill battle to extract value out of it and so frail random tech takes it out with sash or the like. Its just ditto bait. Similar can be said for the paper tiger known as Zacian-C.

Very hot take: The sample teams are kinda bad and get cheesed on every easily. They seem like they are designed for tournament play which I couldnt care less about.

Also defensive NDM with DD is insane. Has many coverage options and slow sweeps many teams with a little hazard prep. Its so worth it to bring a stealth rocker to free up NDM from this task.

Ditto should be S+ rank on viability. The mon looms over the metagame and influences the team builder like nothing else. A team without ditto advances on the ladder lethargically and at great risk, while every mon you put on the field has to be considering in light of ''how do I respond if ditto copies this''. Its easily the most influential poke in the meta.
 

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