Gen 3 ADV Ubers Viability Ranking Thread, Take 3

Vileman

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Yeah shrang prolly has not used or faced mixed quaza,, everyone sending in groudon just for it to eat an ice beam is always fun. Having also extremespeed to have a check to deo-a and weakened stuff is also always nice, and you can change the last move depending on what u want to break (brick break w/ some attack investment to bop blissey/snorlax, rock slide for hooh flamethrower for forry etc.)
Not much to comment on the others but i also support gengar moving up cause its annoying af cause it spreads status or just gets something down with his coverage or boom. Also spinblocking is kinda neat.
 

shrang

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I have used Mixed Ray actually, and it was meh at best. All it did most of the time was Ice Beam opposing Groudons, fail to KO and get paralysed by T-wave (not exactly its fault since Donners can be surprisingly bulky but eh). Hell, I've even set up Lati@s on it because it was such a weak piece of shit. Thunderbolt does jack shit to things you want it to hit (eg Ho-oh/Lugia/Kyogre) and if you want to use Thunder you'd have to risk the accuracy.

In terms of Extremespeed, it doesn't really do that much from mixed Ray since you're not running much Atk on it. Hell, 4 Atk Extremespeed can't even OHKO a 25% SubSalac Groudon! (337 Atk vs 316 Def & 380 HP (80 Base Power): 62 - 73 (16.32% - 19.21%)). Really, do you really think you can "bop" Snorlax when it's that damn weak?

 
hi.

a+ -> s: deoxys-a isn't a defensive pokemon, and it doesn't have defensive merit, but i believe its raw offensive prowess deserves s rank. its choic band set, the most infamous, tears apart teams. if your team is prepared for it, a subpetaya set will beat its supposed counters. there isn't a 100% counter in the game, and i feel it's a lot more threatening than the likes of kyogre. the best way is through offensive checks, like extreme speed rayquaza, rain/sun sweepers, etc. but regardless, deo-a is more than likely going to dismantle a core, a pokemon itself, or entire teams. i really do believe it deserves to go up because it's just simply the best raw offensive pokemon in the game.
 

Minority

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Deoxys-A doesn't belong in the same category as Lati, Kyogre, or Groudon. It's a luxury Pokemon while the others form the offensive and defensive backbones for pretty much every team archetype. Lati is mandatory, and using a Kyogre or Groudon is nigh mandatory. Some of the scariest teams use both.

Yes it is a powerful offensive Pokemon, but it's more comparable to Mewtwo, Snorlax, and Blissey in that it's extremely effective for the style of builds that elect to use it rather than being a foundational Pokemon for the tier. It's basically a faster Mewtwo that has more immediate power and Extreme Speed while having less defensive synergy, no boom, and no Fire Blast.

I feel you also overhype it as an offensive Pokemon and ignore the ways in which teams can prepare for it. CB sets are prone to Pursuit, Protect use, phys def Pokemon, and can't immediately beat the types of Pokemon strong defensive squads employ (Jirachi, Skarmory, Salamence, bulky Groudon). That's not counting the ways offense squads handle CB Deo-A. As for the Sub Petaya set it's also not without its weaknesses. While it is far less vulnerable to Pursuit, Protect use, and phys def Poekmon it can't consistently harass opposing teams as well as the CB set because it has a far lower immediate damage output and relies on having one opportunity to sweep. The set functions best when kept hidden in the dark as the win condition, but this comes at a cost; you have to play the vast majority of the game with only 5 Pokemon as seen here. The Petaya set also has strong counters (albeit a small list of them) that your team must be attuned to defeat such as Shedinja, bulky Latias, Jirachi, and Swampert. Since it forgoes Extreme Speed it is also easily halted by Rayquaza and weather sweepers.

In short I don't believe Deoxys-A's excellence as an offensive threat is to a degree that is high enough to make it worthy of S Rank. The current S Rank of Lati, Kyogre, and Groudon fit on every archetype, are foundational Pokemon rather than being luxury, have comparable offensive capacity, and also provide immense defensive synergy.


Fireburn also hasn't edited in the prior changes that was agreed on.
 

p2

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spell tag deo-a is honestly the most underrated set ever and is a total monster when it comes to breaking team because a lot of them rely on pivoting between fighting and ghost resists which falls flat on its face and throw in options for the last slot like rock slide, bulkier variants of ho-oh becomes a liability when it comes to dealing with deo-a. if you're gonna consider it moving to s, don't look at band or petaya sets.

very controversial opinion:
i'm also not a big fan of groudon. i think the meta in general is really shitty towards it as the other 3 s ranks put a huge amount of pressure on it, which makes it pretty difficult for groudon to function, especially in comparsion to the other s ranks which can handle and deal with the meta much more easily. it's actually a lot harder to justify on teams than the other s ranks and really lacks the insane splashability that the others offer. on top of that, sun isn't great: most abusers are pretty bad, will admit eggy is very annoying to face though. and when you compare it to rain sweepers/breakers, sun is just very underwhelming.

i'm mostly speaking from uml experience here, and i just don't see groudon as a very dominant threat and nowhere near the same level as kyogre and latios, and i most definitely think deo-a is much better than it.

i'm also rambling because its 3am but i can elaborate on these points later
 

Fireburn

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Hey this is getting activity again. I'll make some edits that were proposed earlier:

Rayquaza moved down from A to A-
Ludicolo moved down from B to B-
Steelix moved up from B to B+
Deoxys-S moved up from B- to B
Mew moved down from B- to C
Salamence moved up from C to B
Slaking moved up from C to B
Aerodactyl added to B
Regirock added to B-

I'll respond to p2 later but Groudon definitely deserves its S-rank, you're not giving it enough credit as a blanket check to like everything physical + its usual sets can beat the other S ranks. I dunno how you could say its hard to justify its use, I've never seen anyone have issues fitting Groudon onto a team.

e: I'm gonna toss out some noms while I'm here:

Flygon should drop to C rank. While it's probably the best Groudon counter in the game, that's literally all it does. It's pretty terrible against most everything else and isn't super strong so basically anything with Ice Beam just eats it lol.

I also think Quagsire might be decent enough to justify B- or C rank. It's only really useful on defensive rain teams but its a solid answer to 2 pkmn those teams usually have issues with, that being offensive TWave Kyogre and CM Jirachi. It also walls most Swift Swimmers and is rather hard to OHKO due to its typing. It would be a lot better if it had Recover, but Amnesia + Rest can usually get the job done for tanking/Toxic stalling purposes, or it can use Haze to make sure CM Kyogre isn't getting anywhere. Not super amazing, but its decent at doing its job and is about as niche as Flygon is.
 
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