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Resource A visual teambuilding tool for Overused tiers

Red Shreder

Waiting you at Mt. Silver's top.
is a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
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Last year, I released Overstrat, a website dedicated to Overused tiers of all generations and designed to serve as a tool to support the player through his teambuilding process. It is mainly in french, but an English section is now available for the main feature of the website.

For each generation (not all of them yet actually because I'm still working on it, but at least for RBY, GSC, ORAS, USM & SwSh), I made tables like the following one for all the common Pokemon in the OU tier. As an example, here's the one for Kartana in gen 8 OU :

kartana.PNG

I think it is rather self explanatory, but here are some in depth explanations for each rows :
  • Common counters : these are Pokemon, OU by usage (or sometimes really close to), that can come in on whatever move of whatever set, even considering the worst rolls possible for them, and still win the 1v1. The only things I did not took into account are haxx (crits, flinches etc.), sleep inducing moves and moves like Destruction / Explosion in old gens. This row is always exhaustive.
  • Unusual counters : same as before, but for non-OU mons. This list only shows the best options and is non-exhaustive in some cases for obvious reasons.
  • Checks - Revenge Killers : the best Kartana's checks and revenge killers of the metagame, either for their good speed, priority or typing. Some of them can even counter some Kartana's sets, but not all at once. Tangrowth can often counter Kartana but is not on the counters' list because it has to rely on the bad accuracy of Focus Blast to get rid of it before being 2HKO'ed by the Life Orb version.
  • Ideal teammates : some teammates' suggestions ; this could be because of their good typing synergy (Tapu Fini), combos (Rillaboom grass core or Slowbro Future Sight + Teleport), utility (Tyranitar that always counters Zapdos, Moltres, Latios (without Aurasphere), Dragapult, Volcarona etc.)... you got the idea.
You can click on the Pokemon's images to easily navigate from one Pokemon to another in the same generation.

If you put your cursor on Kartana's image, it displays its Base Stats :

kartana-stats.PNG

The same principle applies for the underlined speed IVs ; you'll get the speed value at +0, +1 if the Pokemon is helding a Scarf, +2 if it is able to boost its speed :

kartana-speed.PNG

For defensive Pokemon, things are a little bit different for the first 2 rows (common and unusual counters) since there's generally a plethora Pokemon that are technically able to come in and counter them.

blissey.PNG

So if we are considering Blissey's case, you can see that I only put the very best options, i.e. Pokemon that are not affected by statuts (poison and paralysis in Blissey's case), or at least not too much :
  • Ferro, Skarmory and Corviknight can be paralysed but are already pretty slow and can recover, thanks to Leech Seed or Roost for the former two.
  • Excadrill resists both statuts, can come in, SD and win.
  • Aegislash can be paralysed but is also slow and can freely boost on it since Blissey can't touch it.
  • Melmetal can OHKO Blissey with its banded STAB.
  • Clefable isn't affected by Toxic and even though paralysis can be annoying, Seismic Toss is only a 5HKO, and Clef can set up CM to put pressure on Blissey.
Same thing applies to the second row : Reuniclus = Clef, Toxtricity resists both statuts and can Drain Punch, then we have some Guts users and two offensive mons that are immune to paralysis + Doublade = Aegislash.

As you can see, I did not put Gengar on the first row even though it is a great answer to Blissey, just because taking T-Wave can be too troublesome for the rest of the match. The rest of the Checks & RK list followes the same principle, all of the Pokemon being too vulnerable to paralysis and/or poison.

____________________​

You can access to those tables from the website main page : here, simply clicking on the English flag
drapeau-en.png
.

Or from there for every available generation :
RBY - http://overstrat.free.fr/fiches-en/rby-en.html
GSC - http://overstrat.free.fr/fiches-en/gsc-en.html
ORAS - http://overstrat.free.fr/fiches-en/oras-en.html
USM - http://overstrat.free.fr/fiches-en/usm-en.html
SS - http://overstrat.free.fr/fiches-en/ss-en.html (the first group of 47 Pokemon is up to date with the Crown Tundra DLC and the recent Magearna and Cinderace bans)

If you have any question, feel free to ask. I'd be happy to give some more explanations if needed.

PS : on a side note, the website looks much better on computer with tables like these due to the reduced size of phone's screens.
 
Last edited:

May

Need a cuppa...
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Heya! I've been having a look at your RBY section, and it has a lot of potential. However, it could use a lot of work. My understanding of French is a bit limited, so forgive me if I have misinterpreted anything.

Your metagame section has a few outdated takes. This feels a bit like Hipmonlee's RBY Battling Guide from 2011, though you seem to have some modern nuances in places.
  • You're right in that RBY is easy to pick up in the first section. However, it is quite difficult to master due to how differently everything works compared to modern games. The mechanical know-how and interplay situations play unlike anything you'll see in a modern game.
  • Your review of status is good, but it misses out a few crucial components. Switching in Chansey on something like Thunder Wave is important for staving off future status, as it can come in on predicted status moves to stop them. You mention stopping status for Tauros: this plays into it quite well. You mention bringing it in on predicted switches here, mention recovery as well.
  • "The Big 4" is a very outdated term in modern RBY. Exeggutor has fallen from this status quite hard, often being put alongside Starmie on people's rankings. Many teams go "Eggyless" these days by using Sing Chansey or other sleepers. I would write this section as "Big 3", "The 3 Normals", or something like that, then put Exeggutor and Starmie just below. You write a good overview on them, just needs minor tweaks. Oh, and it may be best not to mention Golem when going over Exeggutor, you hardly see it these days.
  • I find it odd that Lapras is featured on your list of "Other Threats", since not every single OU Pokemon is there. More common Pokemon such as Gengar, Cloyster and Jolteon are omitted. Either add the rest of OU or replace Lapras with those three, imo.
The setlist needs a lot of work. View the OU Viability Rankings and build from there.
  • I would recommend including the D-E ranks on your RBY setlists. You seem to cut off at C-rank, which is fine, but I think it's worth expanding. Perhaps separate by whether they're OU or UU, or by viability rank. There's a lot you can play with here.
  • Many UU Pokemon are listed as counters, as if they were common based on the category in the OP. For example, Venusaur VS Rhydon. These should be designated as "unusual counters", as they really aren't seen often enough.Golem is a bothersome part of this, as it's often listed before Rhydon as if it's more relevant. Golem is worse than Rhydon defensively in every instance due to Rhydon's superior HP, so even if it was OU, this would be a bit iffy.
    • Some of these should just be outright removed or changed;
      • I'm not sure why Venusaur is on a bunch of these when it's an E-rank. You often omit a lot of the E-Ds, but Venusaur and sometimes Raichu are common sights. Consider removing these or populating the unusual checks with C-E ranks.
      • Dragonite should be given a second look. I'm not really sure where to start, but it doesn't seem too accurate...
      • Hypno is by no means a "usual" counter to Gengar. It's hardly used in the first place. Put to unusual; it's alright in OU and is ranked, so I don't think it should be removed.
      • Remove Raichu from the Zapdos page, no RBYer worth their salt is bringing that to a high ladder game, let alone a tournament.
      • I wouldn't say Snorlax is a great Victreebel "revenge killer" to Victreebel at all, unless you're factoring in paralysis. If Victreebel is in a situation where it's faster, it'll just Wrap pivot out, or worse, sleep it.
      • Starmie, Zapdos, and Jolteon should be regular counters to Slowbro. They'll come in often enough on Rest and Amnesia that they can be seen as suitable answers.
      • I'd say put Snorlax in your "regular counters" for Chansey, as it's your main switch-in to it. The way you frame the rest as "revenge killers" seems wrong, though...it's just not very well-framed.
      • Starmie is a perfectly suitable Persian check for its access to Thunder Wave while speed tieing it. Consider adding it.
      • There are probably more issues, I'd recommend viewing the on-site RBY analyses. They've been receiving improvements lately!
The accuracy notation for moves is wrong and doesn't factor in 1/256 accuracy. Here's a conversion table which you can either put somewhere or use to change it;
Stated AccuracyTrue AccuracyTrue Accuracy (%)
100%255/25699.6%
95%242/25694.5%
90%229/25689.5%
85%216/25684.4%
80%204/25679.7%
75%191/25674.6%
70%178/25669.5%
60%153/25659.8%
55%140/25654.7%
30%76/25629.7%
RBYers often use this notation since the stated accuracy is simply wrong.

Effect chance is also wrong;
Stated ProbabilityTrue ProbabilityTrue Probability (%)
40%103/25640.2%
33%85/25633.2%
30%77/25630.1%
20%52/25620.3%
10%26/25610.2%

The Role Compendium could use minor improvements.
  • The teams could use improving; consider using the teams here and here.
  • Jynx isn't in the lead section, which is really odd as it's used very often.
  • You seem to use "/" to cut off, I'd recommend cutting off from non-OU threats, specifically with Hyper Beam. So for example, cut off Dragonite when going over Thunder Wave. If you take my idea to use D-Es, use a second "/" if you decide to populate this section with them.
  • When mentioning Reflect, Chansey and Snorlax should be first, no question. They're the main users by a country mile, nothing comes close.
  • You should note Counter users somewhere.
 
Hmm. Wouldn't making the tool in English be better? I'd think the vast majority of the french community understands English and knows the names of common pokemon and items.

For English speakers, while it's possible to figure out the meaning it would certainly be easier to take in information at a glance.
 

Red Shreder

Waiting you at Mt. Silver's top.
is a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
Many thanks for your very detailed analysis Plague von Karma.

The RBY section is one of the first one I worked on, in mid-late 2018, and with the amount of work required for the gen 8 this past year, I did not have the time to come back on it.

You're right in that RBY is easy to pick up in the first section. However, it is quite difficult to master due to how differently everything works compared to modern games. The mechanical know-how and interplay situations play unlike anything you'll see in a modern game.
That's a good point, I'll add a line or two to nuance that a little bit.

Your review of status is good, but it misses out a few crucial components. Switching in Chansey on something like Thunder Wave is important for staving off future status, as it can come in on predicted status moves to stop them.
I already mentionned this in the 3rd paragraph of the part related to statuts conditions, this one : "Une façon de se prémunir à la fois de la paralysie et du gel est de faire paralyser votre propre Leveinard." Which means, "One way to prevent most of your team from being hit by either paralysis or freeze is to let your Chansey be paralysed."

"The Big 4" is a very outdated term in modern RBY. Exeggutor has fallen from this status quite hard, often being put alongside Starmie on people's rankings.
I just took a look at the usage stats of the 4 last SPL, and it is indeed very intersting to see the evolution of the use of Exeggutor :

SPL IX | 4 | Exeggutor | 239 | 94.09% | 50.21% |
SPL X | 4 | Exeggutor | 177 | 76.29% | 45.76% |
SPL XI | 5 | Exeggutor | 167 | 70.76% | 48.50% |
SPL XII | 5 | Exeggutor | 67 | 54.03% | 55.22% |

Since I worked a lot with SPL IX stats, you can see why I kept the "big 4" designation.
I'll change that in the near future obviously.

I find it odd that Lapras is featured on your list of "Other Threats", since not every single OU Pokemon is there. More common Pokemon such as Gengar, Cloyster and Jolteon are omitted.
You're right, I'll probably add those 3 to the list.

I would recommend including the D-E ranks on your RBY setlists.
In fact, I had to make a choice to "where I was going to cut off". And since D-E ranks mons are generally around 1% usage, either on ladder or in tours, I just chose to stop at C rank.
Adding some more Pokemon is definitely something I could do in the future, but not before other generations are completed.

Many UU Pokemon are listed as counters, as if they were common based on the category in the OP. For example, Venusaur VS Rhydon. These should be designated as "unusual counters", as they really aren't seen often enough.
For the first 2 generations, I did not distinguished the counters in 2 rows (common and unsual) due to the very first reduced number of Pokemon. For GSC, counters are kinda ordered in term of viability and usage, which wasn't the case for RBY. I'll definitely make some adjutments here.

Dragonite should be given a second look. I'm not really sure where to start, but it doesn't seem too accurate...
You mean for the counters & checks list ?

I wouldn't say Snorlax is a great Victreebel "revenge killer" to Victreebel at all, unless you're factoring in paralysis. If Victreebel is in a situation where it's faster, it'll just Wrap pivot out, or worse, sleep it.
I put Snorlax here just because its high HP stat gives it the opportunity to come in on Wrap, waiting for a miss. The only mons that take even less damage on Wrap are all weak to grass type (Cloyster, Rhydon, Slowbro & Golem). Snorlax actually acts much like a check than a Revenge Killer to me. And as regards the potential sleep factor, as I mentionned in my first post, I never take that into account to establish the checks & counters list. I always consider that sleep clause is already activated.

Starmie, Zapdos, and Jolteon should be regular counters to Slowbro. They'll come in often enough on Rest and Amnesia that they can be seen as suitable answers.
Though I do agree with you in Starmie's case, both Zapdos and Jolteon do not resist Slowbro's STAB combination, so if they switch-in on Amnesia, Slowbro is more likely to win the 1v1 before getting enough chances to get a crit, according to their respective crit ratio. They are really good checks, but I can't consider them as counters, theorically.

The accuracy notation for moves is wrong and doesn't factor in 1/256 accuracy. Here's a conversion table which you can either put somewhere or use to change it.
Oh, didn't think about that, I'll make the required changes for sure.

The teams could use improving; consider using the teams here and here.
The teams section is the only one I won't try to perfectly keep up to date. The main goal of the website being to simplify teambuilding, teams suggested are just here to give new players something to make a first jump onto the tier, before they are able to build their own ones. As long as teams suggested are solid enough to use high up on ladder, I think it's ok.

Jynx isn't in the lead section, which is really odd as it's used very often.
An oversight on my part. I mentionned Jynx as a lead in the metagame section but forgot to put it here.

You seem to use "/" to cut off, I'd recommend cutting off from non-OU threats, specifically with Hyper Beam. So for example, cut off Dragonite when going over Thunder Wave.
I specified how I use this "/" in the role compendium section of other generations. I tend to put on the left the most viable options of the tier, whether a Pokemon is OU or not, and as long as the actual move has a usage stat > 10%. It is something that is quite hard to keep updated, since it can evolve very fast. I'll try to revamp it a little bit though.

You should note Counter users somewhere.
Good point.

Hmm. Wouldn't making the tool in English be better? I'd think the vast majority of the french community understands English and knows the names of common pokemon and items.

For English speakers, while it's possible to figure out the meaning it would certainly be easier to take in information at a glance.
I've already thought about that, and though it is a good idea, some players are sometimes reluctant to get Showdown a shot, considering it is only in English. So this gives them the opportunity to transition from French to English at their own pace.

But I'm not against doing that someday, at least for the tables.
 

May

Need a cuppa...
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Thanks for the reply!

You mean for the counters & checks list ?
Yeah, Dragonite seems a bit odd, at least at a glance.

I put Snorlax here just because its high HP stat gives it the opportunity to come in on Wrap, waiting for a miss.
What I'm on about is that Victreebel can use Wrap and subsequently switch out. When the trapper switches during Wrap, the turn ends. Victreebel has to be paralyzed for Snorlax to actually hit it. While Victreebel is still "leaving", it's not the best situation for Snorlax either, as it's likely taking a bit of chip damage.

As long as teams suggested are solid enough to use high up on ladder, I think it's ok.
If you don't intend to keep them updated, I suggest linking to the places I specified, at least for now. Right now, the teams are noticeably dated and I'm not sure whether they'd be good for players jumping in. They can definitely work, but Amaranth's teams may be a good starting point if you choose to revamp them.
 

Red Shreder

Waiting you at Mt. Silver's top.
is a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
03/10/21 - UPDATE
  • As suggested by OrdA, I've started to work on an English section. You can now click on the flag
    drapeau-en.png
    on the main page of the site to be redirected to it, or directly on this link. Right now, as you can see below, RBY and GSC are available in English, other generations will follow. If you notice any word I would have missed to translate, feel free to report it here.
rby.PNG


gsc.PNG

  • Also, the RBY section have been updated, according to Plague von Karma's comment. Among other things, Venusaur and Raichu have been withdrawn from the checks and counters lists, some sets have been reworked, as well as the role compendium and metagame section, where descriptions for Gengar, Cloyster and Jolteon have been included.
Right now, the teams are noticeably dated and I'm not sure whether they'd be good for players jumping in. They can definitely work, but Amaranth's teams may be a good starting point if you choose to revamp them.
I checked Amaranth's topic, and 2 of the teams I suggest are very close to 2 of Amaranth's ones. The first one is the same, except for 1 move, and the second one has only 2 differences in term of moves, so that shouldn't be that big of a deal I think. I've still added 2 of his teams, and 1 other to complete the list a bit.

I'd say put Snorlax in your "regular counters" for Chansey, as it's your main switch-in to it.
I can't consider Snorlax as a 100% Chansey counter because of the move Counter. That said, Snorlax remains first in the list.

Starmie, Zapdos, and Jolteon should be regular counters to Slowbro.
Though I said last time I did agree in Starmie's case, I forgot to think about the situation where Starmie switch-in on a T-Wave. In this case, Slowbro can set up an Amnesia before being hit by Starmie because it is now faster, and Starmie's chances to inflict a critical hit are well reduced because of the paralysis factor. Though Starmie probably remains the best option to come in on Slowbro, its chances to win the 1v1 is too far from 100% and haxx reliant to be put as a safe counter. Starmie, Zapdos and Jolteon have been placed first in the checks list.
 
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Red Shreder

Waiting you at Mt. Silver's top.
is a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
10/2022 - UPDATE
dpp.JPG

  • Hover over the types now displays weaknesses and resistances (this works in all generations) :
w-r.png

  • Last but not least, hover over a Pokemon in Common & Unusual Counters rows displays the minimal requirments so that the Pokemon can be considered as a counter. This feature is only working with DPP OU right now, but will be implemented in other gens in the future.
It may only display a single move, like in Celebi's case regarding Breloom :

breloom.JPG


Or sometimes the full set, like in the Suicune vs Machamp duel, where Pressure helps draining the already low Dynmaic Punch's PP :

machamp.JPG


Remember that I always consider that sleep clause is already activated for a Pokemon to be counted as a counter. And I always ignore Explosion because it is not a way to win a duel, since the user is not surviving + the target is considered winning the 1v1 anyway.

Note that all this remains theorical and that it will obviously be different in real battle conditions, but it helps to visualise and understand why 'A' is better than 'B' against 'C' in most cases. For example, if Mega-Scizor switches in on a banded Knock Off from Weavile and you click U-Turn because there's a Magnezone in the opposing team, it won't be able to come back later on Weavile if rocks and spikes are up on the field.
That said, Mega-Scizor will always be the best counter to Weavile, no matter what.

If you have any question, feel free to ask !
 

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