A Mix of the New and the Old [5th Gen RMT]

[Jukain-Arashi]

Hey guys, I'm back with a 5th Gen team after taking a break from Pokemon for quite a while. I decided to test out some Pokemon over the break and see if I can adapt to the new metagame and here's what I came up with. All your comments would be greatly appreciated.

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Garchomp (M) @ Lum Berry
Trait: Sand Veil
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Dragon Claw
- Earthquake
- Fire Blast
- Stealth Rock

After some testing, I've decided to run this Garchomp as my lead. First off, it allows me to see if my opponent has any Ice attacks on the team that may stop Jaroda from sweeping or Latios. Second, it has access to Stealth Rock and it a pretty fast Pokemon to being with. And third, Garchomp has a very high Atk stat meaning I can start off the battle by putting some major dents in teams. Expert Belt on this set maximizes the damage I deal while still being able to switch attack and not taking recoil. Fire Blast is primarily for Nattorei and Skarmory. Dragon Claw + Earthquake are excellent STAB moves and give some nice neutral coverage bar Skarmory.

Changes

Heatran (M) @ Shuca Berry
Trait: Flash Fire
EVs: 64 HP / 4 Def / 188 SAtk / 252 Spd
Naive Nature (+Spd, -SDef)
- Earth Power
- Lava Plume
- Stealth Rock
- Explosion

Heatran has been one of the best leads every since DPPt and a personal favorite of mine. Unlike many other leads, Heatran either manages to get Stealth Rock up or KO the opposing lead. Earth Power allows me to hit other Heatrans that my be hoping to switch into a Lava Plume. Lava Plume allows me to deal with Nattorei which can be a pain if it sets up. Though Fire Blast would be more powerful, the occasional burns from Lava Plume are greatly welcomed as it helps cripple physical attackers that would otherwise rape my team. Explosion is there so that Heatran can go out with a BANG. It also helps in dealing with Roopushin who comes in thinking I'll switch and it can get a free turn to Bulk Up.

Nattorei (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Iron Barbs
EVs: 252 HP / 60 Def / 196 SDef
Sassy Nature (+SDef, -Spd)
- Spikes
- Leech Seed
- Power Whip
- Thunder Wave

Nattorei serves as my Spiker, usually coming in after Heatran has done it's thing. There really isn't much to say about this guy other than he's suppose to get Spikes up. Power Whip serves as a powerful STAB move allowing it to hit stuff like Swampert, if it decides to stay in. Thunder Wave to paralyze my opponent's switch-ins, this helps my over all team. Leech Seed and Leftovers are for recovery.

Roobushin (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Guts
EVs: 68 HP / 192 At / 248 SpD
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Bulk Up
- Drain Punch
- Mach Punch
- Stone Edge

This dude here is a f****** pain to go against. It loves coming in on a Will-o-Wisp Thunder Wave and snagging a free +1 Atk boost. Even without the boost Roopushin scares a lot of Pokemon out, letting it set up regardless. Mach Punch is it's only priority move, which still does a crap ton despite it only having 4 Atk EVs. Stone Edge lets me hit anything else that my other moves can't hit. Drain Punch is an effective way for me to heal up lost HP due to status or taking many hits. I opted for 252HP/252SDef on Roopushin since he can still hit pretty hard without the Atk EVs. Allowing it to have max SDef has helped in many cases where attacks like Draco Meteor would have OHKOed me. Roopushin really doesn't mind the drop in attacking strength.

Latios (M) @ Choice Specs
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Surf
- Dragon Pulse
- Thunderbolt
- Trick

I decided to replace Starmie with Specs Latios because I wanted to have a bit more power on this team. Surf and Dragon Pulse provide excellent neutral coverage while Thunderbolt lets me hit water types for super effective damage. Trick is extremely helpful in crippling one of my opponent's Pokemon. I usually wait until I've seen my opponents team before I give the Choice Specs away. I'm currently thinking of changing Latios to Latias for the extra bulk but keeping the same set. Any suggestions?

Changes

Starmie @ Choice Specs
Trait: Natural Cure
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Hydro Pump
- Thunderbolt
- Ice Beam
- Psychic

I don't think many people see this variant of Starmie around. Specs Starmie is probably my only other answer to Roopushin other than Explosion on Heatran. As soon as Roopushin enters, I go to Starmie and hit it with a STAB Specs Psychic which is enough to OHKO it. Not to mention, a Specs Hydro Pump coming off of Starmie already massing special attack. Thunderbolt and Ice Beam are for the typical BoltBeam combo that's only resisted by Steel types, otherwise it deals neutral damage to everything else.

Rankurusu (M) @ Life Orb
Trait: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SAtk
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Calm Mind
- Recover
- Psychic
- Hidden Power [Fighting]

After some more testing I started getting tired of Roopushin, because like I said earlier, it's a f****** pain to go again. This set utilizes Magic Guard + Life Orb to deal deal without the recoil. Modest nature lets Rankurusu reach a SAtk stat of 392, and the rest goes to HP to add some bulk. Calm Mind allows me to boost Rank's already high SAtk while being able to Recover off any damage taken. Psychic is what makes Roopushin gtfo or die. Hidden Power [Fighting] means that I don't fall bait to Tyranitar.

Changes

Jarooda (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Perversity
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Toxic
- Substitute
- Leaf Storm
- Hidden Power [Ice]

When new B/W abilities were released and I saw the Jaroda got Perversity as it's Dream World ability, I knew this would be a Pokemon I had to use. Jaroda can easily switch in and pick off a weakened Pokemon using Leaf Storm which would lower my SAtk by -2, however because of Perversity instead of decreasing it will increase by +2. A +2 SAtk Jaroda is pretty scary if you ask me. Substitute helps protect Jaroda from status and priority attacks that may interrupt it's sweep. Toxic is a nice edition to it allowing me to slowly deal damage to my opponent, making it easy for Lucario to come in and pick it off with Extremespeed or some other move. Hidden Power [Ice] on this set allows me to hit opposing Grass types and sometimes thinks like Salamence and Sazandora that like to switch in thinking they wall me.

Lucario (M) @ Life Orb
Trait: Justice Heart
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Swords Dance
- Close Combat
- ExtremeSpeed
- Crunch

Lucario is definitely my late game sweeper, even though Jaroda can sweep as well. I usually bring Lucario in after my opponent has been raped by my dual layer of hazards allowing it to easily pick them off one by one with Extremespeed. Crunch allows me to hit Burungero and OHKO. Close Combat is nice against Heatran that's been maimed by Jaroda's Glare as it switched in. It's also a powerful STAB that does a good amount of damage to all Pokemon that don't resist it. Swords Dance is to boost Lucario's attack, if he gets the chance. I chose the ability Justice Heart mainly because if Lucario gets hit by a stray Dark attack aimed at one of my Pokemon, specifically Starmie, he'll get a +1 Atk boost giving it more sweeping potential.

Well that's my team guys. I'd really appreciate it if you guys could help make it a better team.

 

[LabRay]

Hey, the biggest problem I see is that since you are using heatran as a suicide lead, and Starmie as a roobushin counter with choice locked psychic, it is highly likely that you end up with no fire resist late game. Starmie could easily be taken out by all the dark type pursuit users *cough*ttar*cough* running around. This is very dangerous especially against sun-teams.

To that end I think it's better to take advantage of Heatran's natural bulk and run substitute/hidden power instead of explosion. Balloon also holds clear advantage over shuca.

Since it's a DW team. Shandera basically means you have to run shed shell on nattorei. In fact, you have a bit of a shandera weakness with only roob and heatran surviving and KOing. A pursuit user would be good else your 2 late game sweepers would not be too useful.

Also, you have no ground immune or sleep absorber so that might be something to look into.

 

[y4f]

Right now I don't have time for a full rate, but a gigantic problem I see is lead Machamp. You have no solid switchin that won't take a shit ton from STAB DynamicPunch, and if he predicts right Starmie gets torched by the payback. For Starmie I'd run LO since the main thing that sets it apart from other special sweepers is its insane coverage combined with decent speed. Choice Specs makes it easy to outpredict. Also Roob rapes this team. Right off the bat, I'd suggest going with Offensive LO Rapid Spin Starmie and dumping Jarooda for Rank to counter opposing Roobushin, and also a switchin to Machamp's DPunch. with defense evs, you will be able to easily take a 50 BP Payback (since he'll go first, Rank is super slow), and OHKO with Psychic.

 

[Jaroda]

Your team is pretty good but I see room for improvement.

Heatran: This guy is way too valuable a wall to sacrifice to Explosion, especially since it's been nerfed to half strength. Being immune to fire (whch half your team is weak to) and 4x resistant to ice is too beneficial to sacrifice. Try the Substitute and Torment set in the lead. You'll cause fits. Lava Plume everything to cause burns and alternating between Substitute and Torment leaves your opponent with few attacking options, racking up the SR damage. In which case, make your item Leftovers.

Nattorei: Perfectly fine as is. I'd consider Thunder Wave though since it helps the rest of the team immensely.

Roopushin: No attack EVs on a Bulk Up spread hinders you attack performance greatly. The less attack you have, the less it's multiplied by Bulk Up and Guts. Try my EV spread of Adamant 68 HP / 192 At / 248 SpD. You'll find you're more than bulky enough as is and the extra power after a bulk up really helps you nab some KOs. Also, run Stone Edge over Payback. Stone Edge is more than powerful enough to KO ghosts and you should never stay in on a Psychic type anyway. Stone Edge helps you hit Dragonite, Salamence, Gyarados, Zapdos, etc. It's way more useful.

Starmie: Use Life Orb over Specs. Starmie's wide move pool is put to far better use if it can switch moves. Especially since entry hazards will wear it down quickly. I mean, if you use Psychic to kill a Roopushin and they send in a Tyranitar, won't you be happy knowing you can just use Hydro Pump?

Jaroda: Replace Glare or Leech Seed with Substitute. Jaroda kind of depends on it to keep it safe from priority and status. Nattorei has Leech Seed already anyway.

Lucario: Fine as is.

 

[Jukain-Arashi]

I'll try out theses suggestions. I've noticed that I've been having trouble with Weather teams a lot.

EDIT: Rankurusu has been a great improvement. I'm still iffy on replacing Payback for Stone Edge on Roopushin because of it's terrible accuracy. Sleep is another issue.

 

[Bleu Soul]

I second everything Jaroda said, except maybe the Tran suggestions.

Nattorei hardly gets any additional coverage he'd need by having both GBall and Power Whip. Get rid of whichever you choose after looking at your team's weaknesses with some more testing. Most of your team is slowish (base 90's aren't too great nowadays), so you could definitely use some help there. Maybe add in Twave.

I think Starmie needs to drop Thunderbolt. The only thing worth mentioning that you're hitting with that is Gyrados, who you could take care of with Nattorei or even Jaroda if he has enough boosts (+2 I think?). Replace it with recover since he's quite fast and can actually take a few hits even without investment. Not to mention that would keep your revenger nice and healthy. You could feasbly turn him into a spinner if you wanted, on in that case you might drop HP because the other two moves provide such important coverage. I wouldn't recommend it though.

Please take Jaroda's Roo spread. Please. He works WONDERS with it. Normally Roo would die easily to the many special attacks out there, but with that investment he actually can survive a lot, even Psychics.

As for Heatran...I really don't see what he does for your team other than boom and a fire immunity. There are a lot of people abusing Fighting-type leads and Deoxys-S, and Heatran can't do a whole lot to them at all. Either you take him out of the lead position and put him somewhere else, or you just get rid of him. Boom is not nearly as powerful as it was last generation without the Defense drop. PO hasn't gotten rid of that part of the description yet so I don't know if that's confusing people or they're too slow to catch up. Anyway, my point is that the move really sucks now. Sure it can hit a few things, but with so many Steels out there and without the sheer BP that once glorified it, it just plain sucks. There are a few things you could replace him with, though. Now I'm not too great with these suggestions, mind you, but I thought of an interesting Dragonite you might like to replace Tran. He has a lot of the key resistances, Miracle Scale, and recovery, with one of the biggest movepools in all of Pokemon to select from. He may not have SR, which might cause you problems, but you could always place it on Nattorei unless you have your heart set on hazard stacking. Without a ghost though I'm not sure that's a smart idea. So ya here's what I was thinking.

Dragonite (F) @ Life Orb
Trait: Multi-Scale
EV's: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Dragon Claw / Outrage
- Fire Blast / Flamethrower
- Earthquake
- Roost / Dragon Dance

This could be a great anti-lead, a weather stopper/abuser, a sweeper, and much more, all depending on what moves you choose.

Good team and Happy Hunting.

 

[Mr.Senior]

Dragonite (F) @ Life Orb
Trait: Multi-Scale
EV's: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Dragon Claw / Outrage
- Fire Blast / Flamethrower
- Earthquake
- Roost / Dragon Dance

This could be a great anti-lead, a weather stopper/abuser, a sweeper, and much more, all depending on what moves you choose.

Good team and Happy Hunting.

dragonite lead should not have life orb. thats like a really bad idea. if it can kill a lead as they only get rocks up then u basically have another free shot at something else as it keeps multi scale. also the set should be

4 hp 252 atk 252 sp atk
(not sure about the item anymore because it used to be a resist berry but idk anymore because of multi scale doing the same thing. maybe white herb/expert belt or something)
quiet nature
draco meteor
fire blast
e-speed
earthquake.

e-speed is the crux of the set being able to get invaluable priority taking out quicker focus sash leads after taking them down to their sash.

 

[Jukain-Arashi]

The OP has been updated with a few changes I made after some testing.

 

[Jaroda]

Well your descriptions are confusing since you're referencing to pokemon that aren't in your team anymore.

If you're going to use Garchomp as a lead, which is odd but doable, then I'd make the item Lum Berry and use Dragon Claw over Outrage. Using Outrage in the beginning when you opponent has a whole team with Steel types to switch into will be very bad for you. They can easily switch in Nattorei and set up two layers of Spikes by the time you're done Outraging and even more if confusion has it's way with you. Dragon Claw lets you attack accordingly and much safer.

For a Choice Specs set Latias is much inferior to Latios for that job. Latias makes a pretty good Calm Mind attacker though, but you already have Rankurusu for that. I'd replace Thunderbolt for HP Fire myself but that's preference.

 

[Bleu Soul]

dragonite lead should not have life orb. thats like a really bad idea. if it can kill a lead as they only get rocks up then u basically have another free shot at something else as it keeps multi scale. also the set should be

4 hp 252 atk 252 sp atk
(not sure about the item anymore because it used to be a resist berry but idk anymore because of multi scale doing the same thing. maybe white herb/expert belt or something)
quiet nature
draco meteor
fire blast
e-speed
earthquake.

e-speed is the crux of the set being able to get invaluable priority taking out quicker focus sash leads after taking them down to their sash.

All respect, but yeah, I thought there was a specific set for that, which is why I left it open-ended ("depending on what moves you choose"). But I'm pretty darn sure NO LEAD would not run speed epecially if you hang anywhere around the base 100 mark...since, well, everything would then out speed you.

 

[Jukain-Arashi]

For Rank would you guys recommend Psycho Shock > Psychic? I'm a bit confused on how Psycho Shock works actually.

 

[Jukain-Arashi]

The team still struggles against Roopushin, also Ditto's a b**** >.<

 

[Jaroda]

Special attacks normally have damage calculated off the attacker's SpA and the opponent's SpD. Psycho Shock however is based on your SpA and their Df. So if the opponent has lower Df stat you'll do more damage. Psychic is needed to OHKO Roopushin, you Rank outright counters. I don't see how you're having an issue with it.

 

[Jukain-Arashi]

Turns out I didn't EV Rank properly which is why I was struggling xD
I've been having a lot of trouble with weather teams, particularly RAIN. Any suggestions?

 

[Jaroda]

Rain is a bitch. Nattorei is a bitch for Rain, which you have. Bulky Suicune, Tentacruel and Vaporeon with Hail are very bad for Rain teams. All are very specially defensive, two can absorb water, and Tentacruel can use Toxic Spikes as well which Rain hates.

 

[Jukain-Arashi]

Hmm, maybe a Tentaruel to set up Toxic Spikes coupled with Nattorei setting up Stealth Rocks? I'd have to give up Garchomp, who actually comes in quite handy. I'm curious to hear how Vaporeon with Hail works.