5th Gen PRNG Help / Info - Latest: RNG Reporter 9.96.5, PPRNG 1.15.0

[shiny finder]

Heyo, quick-ish question with hopefully an easy response.

I've been trying to RNG Joltik on my W2 cart for the past week, but while I haven't had any issues with hitting my desired seed (I've used this one before) my frames have been all over the place.

Obviously, that's usually a NPC issue - and it is. Chargestone Cave has plenty of NPCs that'll cause issues. But, I know people have been able to do RNG abuse in Chargestone, as there are a few mons from there floating about.

I checked the cave on my Black cart and the difference in NPCs is substantial. My current hunch is that NPC changes between the games makes it so that RNG in Chargestone in BW2 is impossible w/o doing it on em (could maybe do it with Chatot calls exclusively, but that's way beyond my ability).

So my question is that: is it impossible to do prng in Chargestone Cave in BW2, or is there a way to accomplish it?

Thanks in advance!

Impossible no, annoying perhaps. Because the NPCs move the exact same way each time given a seed, the best course is to open your menu asap, perform your chatot calls, then sweet scent. Catch the mon you find, and assuming you hit your seed, figure out which frame you hit so you can adjust for your future attempts. If you open the menu at the same time on your future attempts, the NPCs will have advanced the same amount.

If you find that the NPCs are right on the verge of moving, you can resave and try again so they start in a new spot. However, in doing so you'll have to find your shifted starting frame again.

tl;dr be consistent in your timings and you should be able to get it.

 

[BlizzardHero]

Impossible no, annoying perhaps. Because the NPCs move the exact same way each time given a seed, the best course is to open your menu asap, perform your chatot calls, then sweet scent. Catch the mon you find, and assuming you hit your seed, figure out which frame you hit so you can adjust for your future attempts. If you open the menu at the same time on your future attempts, the NPCs will have advanced the same amount.

If you find that the NPCs are right on the verge of moving, you can resave and try again so they start in a new spot. However, in doing so you'll have to find your shifted starting frame again.

tl;dr be consistent in your timings and you should be able to get it.

Yeah, that would probably work if the starting IV frame was 1 - but unfortunately, this seed needs IV frame advancements as well, and it's the only viable one I have for a Joltik encounter slot.

I tried doing all the IV frame advancements outside Chargestone on Route 6 (there's a small area between the cave and the route) and that seems to technically work. The pidrng seems stable, but I have no idea where the heck I am on the list of frames. I triple tested the encounters and they're consistent, but they don't matching anything remotely close to what RNG Reporter has listed (at least nothing within the 1k frames). Possibly something to do with the act of entering the cave?

 

[shiny finder]

Yeah, that would probably work if the starting IV frame was 1 - but unfortunately, this seed needs IV frame advancements as well, and it's the only viable one I have for a Joltik encounter slot.

I tried doing all the IV frame advancements outside Chargestone on Route 6 (there's a small area between the cave and the route) and that seems to technically work. The pidrng seems stable, but I have no idea where the heck I am on the list of frames. I triple tested the encounters and they're consistent, but they don't matching anything remotely close to what RNG Reporter has listed (at least nothing within the 1k frames). Possibly something to do with the act of entering the cave?

Ah, yeah that makes it considerably harder. Idt entering the cave would cause issues with the PIDRNG state, but I'm not 100% sure. Ideally the thing to do would be to run around to advance the IV frame, enter the cave, then use Chatot to figure out where you are by following the calls.

If you want I can take a look and see if I can find where you are. I'd need you to post...pretty much everything so I can replicate your screens on my end. Namely: seed, profile info, what you're after and what mon you got.

 

[BlizzardHero]

Ah, yeah that makes it considerably harder. Idt entering the cave would cause issues with the PIDRNG state, but I'm not 100% sure. Ideally the thing to do would be to run around to advance the IV frame, enter the cave, then use Chatot to figure out where you are by following the calls.

If you want I can take a look and see if I can find where you are. I'd need you to post...pretty much everything so I can replicate your screens on my end. Namely: seed, profile info, what you're after and what mon you got.

Well I haven't gotten to the point of actually trying to get the mon since I haven't found what my actual starting frame is yet. But the target is still Joltik (using the 0 Encounter slot).
Seed: C825A2F09624B7E4

The first three mons I encountered using this method were:
Bold Joltik lvl 25 - 0 Advance
Naughty Joltik lvl 26 - 1 Advance
Lax Ferroseed lvl 27 - 2 Advance

The starting frame I confirmed 4 times, and I confirmed the following two encounters twice each.

Thanks for the help though, it's a lot of work :/

 

[shiny finder]

Well I haven't gotten to the point of actually trying to get the mon since I haven't found what my actual starting frame is yet. But the target is still Joltik (using the 0 Encounter slot).
Seed: C825A2F09624B7E4

The first three mons I encountered using this method were:
Bold Joltik lvl 25 - 0 Advance
Naughty Joltik lvl 26 - 1 Advance
Lax Ferroseed lvl 27 - 2 Advance

The starting frame I confirmed 4 times, and I confirmed the following two encounters twice each.

Thanks for the help though, it's a lot of work :/

Thanks, think I got everything I needed. Just to confirm, did you check the IVs of those 3 mons to make sure you're getting the right IVs?

 

[BlizzardHero]

Thanks, think I got everything I needed. Just to confirm, did you check the IVs of those 3 mons to make sure you're getting the right IVs?

Yes, they were all the correct IV's (31 in everything but the 0 in Atk). Thanks for taking a look.

 

[shiny finder]

Yes, they were all the correct IV's (31 in everything but the 0 in Atk). Thanks for taking a look.

My best guess is you're around frames 66-71. There's a tight cluster of frames that match up with the info you provided, especially 69 Slot 0 Bold + 71 Slot 5 Lax. Why Naughty would be earlier it's hard to say, but there's a lot going on. That would be my assumption for the time being cuz the next closest isn't not till like...frame 2300. And I just don't see that as plausible.

edit: So I'd assume that 0 advances puts you on frame 69

 

[BlizzardHero]

My best guess is you're around frames 66-71. There's a tight cluster of frames that match up with the info you provided, especially 69 Slot 0 Bold + 71 Slot 5 Lax. Why Naughty would be earlier it's hard to say, but there's a lot going on. That would be my assumption for the time being cuz the next closest isn't not till like...frame 2300. And I just don't see that as plausible.

edit: So I'd assume that 0 advances puts you on frame 69

Thanks for the help! You were spot on: I got her first try XD. Hope that the rest of your day is wonderful!

 

[Atem91]

Are we positive egg shininess is not set until egg is actually received in bw2? I have been trying to SR on the same egg in the daycare for a few days now with no success, when i breed eggs normally i get a shiny much quicker considering I have charm and masuda going, just wondering when it overwrites the seed for the egg does it also use the PID frames from that previous seed everytime making it impossible to ever get a shiny this way, I am using nursery in avenue to open the egg fast everytime.
Thanks.

 

[P3DS]

Are we positive egg shininess is not set until egg is actually received in bw2? I have been trying to SR on the same egg in the daycare for a few days now with no success, when i breed eggs normally i get a shiny much quicker considering I have charm and masuda going, just wondering when it overwrites the seed for the egg does it also use the PID frames from that previous seed everytime making it impossible to ever get a shiny this way, I am using nursery in avenue to open the egg fast everytime.
Thanks.

There is a bug with hatching in BW2. As per the Smogon RNG guides:

In the 5th generation, Eggs are fully generated upon taking it from the Day-Care man. This means that you cannot lock in the PID as you could in 3rd or 4th generation titles. However, this means that RNG abusing an Egg happens all in one shot. Note: that Egg RNG abuse in Black 2 and White 2 is not possible, nor will it ever be.

Therefore, you will be unable to RNG abuse for hatched shinies on BW2. BW is the one for that.

 

[Atem91]

There is a bug with hatching in BW2. As per the Smogon RNG guides:

Therefore, you will be unable to RNG abuse for hatched shinies on BW2. BW is the one for that.

Thanks but that does not really answer my question, I need to know if shininess is set when the eggs ivs etc are set before the egg is even laid or is it upon collecting the egg in bw2

 

[shiny finder]

Thanks but that does not really answer my question, I need to know if shininess is set when the eggs ivs etc are set before the egg is even laid or is it upon collecting the egg in bw2

Stated in the bit that p3ds quoted, it's upon receiving. The only reason why things are set "before" the egg is received is because the RNG is broken and it uses the same info everytime. I.e. the RNG never updates it (for the first egg only; PID is not a part of this bug). Fundamentally it's still determined when you pick it up.

 

[Atem91]

Stated in the bit that p3ds quoted, it's upon receiving. The only reason why things are set "before" the egg is received is because the RNG is broken and it uses the same info everytime. I.e. the RNG never updates it (for the first egg only; PID is not a part of this bug). Fundamentally it's still determined when you pick it up.

After experimenting yesterday the first egg is not always the same per se, they dont explain it properly, from what I have seen as soon as you collect reject an egg, the game predicts and generates the next egg ivs nature ability etc and this does not change upon SR or changing seeds, the next egg will always be the same until its been taken or rejected then a new egg is predicted and the next egg will always be that one again etc.

 

[P3DS]

After experimenting yesterday the first egg is not always the same per se, they dont explain it properly, from what I have seen as soon as you collect reject an egg, the game predicts and generates the next egg ivs nature ability etc and this does not change upon SR or changing seeds, the next egg will always be the same until its been taken or rejected then a new egg is predicted and the next egg will always be that one again etc.

It's all parts of the hatched pokemon are set on collection of the egg. However, there are wandering NPCs on the route that manipulate the RNG in an unpredictable way. Which means, rejecting an egg/accepting an egg just allows those NPCs to affect the RNG.

The method you are describing seems to be the method in later titles.

Also, technically, shininess is not determined until the egg hatches. However, the value that is needed to check shininess of the egg (The PID) is. This is then compared to the hatcher's TID and SID in order to determine if its shiny (It's how legal shiny manaphy and shiny value abuse in gen 6/7 was done - You just traded the egg to a player with the appropriate IDs)

 

[Atem91]

It's all parts of the hatched pokemon are set on collection of the egg. However, there are wandering NPCs on the route that manipulate the RNG in an unpredictable way. Which means, rejecting an egg/accepting an egg just allows those NPCs to affect the RNG.

The method you are describing seems to be the method in later titles.

Also, technically, shininess is not determined until the egg hatches. However, the value that is needed to check shininess of the egg (The PID) is. This is then compared to the hatcher's TID and SID in order to determine if its shiny (It's how legal shiny manaphy and shiny value abuse in gen 6/7 was done - You just traded the egg to a player with the appropriate IDs)

Yes im aware of all that and have done loads of rng eggs in bw but this discussion is about breeding mechanics of bw2 not the first games

 

[P3DS]

Yes im aware of all that and have done loads of rng eggs in bw but this discussion is about breeding mechanics of bw2 not the first games

I was talking about BW2. They hadn't changed the mechanics between games, apart from the weird static seed glitch that affects the RNG abuse on breeding. So, when you were saying that the first egg wasn't the same, it was the randomness from the wandering NPCs on the route adjusting what your frame was. I have, way in the past, tried RNG abuse for breeding in BW2(... Before learning it wasn't possible), and the mechanics are the same as bw, just with the weird initial seed stuff.

 

[Atem91]

I was talking about BW2. They hadn't changed the mechanics between games, apart from the weird static seed glitch that affects the RNG abuse on breeding. So, when you were saying that the first egg wasn't the same, it was the randomness from the wandering NPCs on the route adjusting what your frame was. I have, way in the past, tried RNG abuse for breeding in BW2(... Before learning it wasn't possible), and the mechanics are the same as bw, just with the weird initial seed stuff.

I am so confused Rn, so as far as im aware npcs only affect PID frames not the IV frames which is what is used to control the eggs laid before collection/rejection, also in my experiments like the egg was the same exact brave egg 3 times in a row and i used institute to see exact lv 50 stats everytime to, but after collecting the egg and saving the next egg was a careful nature with diff ivs and it stayed the same every time I booted up until again i rejected and saved then it moved on to a lonely one etc, so I believe the egg will always be the next one for that seed until you take or reject it and then a new one is predicted and so on, and egg rng is possible as some people on the rng discord have done it and there is a jpn program that allows for it but its very fiddly to do.

 

[Lalaya]

Hi, I'm trying to find my seed with White 2 eng on my DSi XL, I tried to capture both Kyurem and Virizion, inputted the times and the parameters right and calculated the IVs of both but I can't seem to find a target seed at all, neither RNG Reporter or Pokefinder are able to find my seed and I honestly don't know what I'm doing wrong, any suggestions?

(Process I'm doing is:
- saved in front of both of them, turned off the console
- turned on the console
- booted the game, inputted the time at the second I clicked to boot the game
- didnt press anything until I saw the title screen
- went ingame, talked to the legendary
- captured it with a Master Ball
- checked IVs, inputted them into Parameter Finder
- clicked Search)

snip

 

[shiny finder]

snip

Few things you might try, unfortunately none of them are explanations.

• Obvious one: Double check you entered everything correctly.
• You don't mention having synced up your DS clock to an external one, so I guess make sure that's kosher since marking the seconds on a DSi is annoying (on that note it's the DS time that matters, not the irl time).
• Widen your search parameters beyond the defaults. Ftr I tried this, and got 1 result at like 54 or 56 seconds idr but that seems a bit unreasonable tbh given your process sounds right. And any delay should be like half that if you boot at :40.
• Try your hand at Unova Link Calibration (helps some, others not). You can find a guide for PPRNG here but the process is the same in RNGR. You can find the tool under main window > 5th gen tools > unova link parameters.

 

[Lalaya]

• You don't mention having synced up your DS clock to an external one, so I guess make sure that's kosher since marking the seconds on a DSi is annoying (on that note it's the DS time that matters, not the irl time).

I did it beforehand, but to be sure I also just extended the Seconds variables from 0 to 59 anyway to cover for the full minute, and THAT didn't find any result
As I don't know what the rest exactly does (VCount, Timer0, etc) I didn't touch those
I'll try Unova Link Parameters in the meantime!

edit: still nothing, VERY weird

 

[tofucocoa]

Has anyone tried RNGing specific Unown letters? I got a shiny Unown T that was supposed to be A. I followed the directions in the PID generation article, converting it to binary, etc. Is there something else to it, or is the article wrong? My Unown's PID is A8A0A8AC.

I've tried a second time with an Unown that should have also been an A, and was instead a Z. Its PID is 0282028C.

First convert the PID to binary. Look at the seventh, eighth, fifteenth, sixteenth, twenty-third, twenty-fourth, thirty-first and thirty-second bits of the PID, i.e. the ones underlined below:

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Combine these 8 bits together to form an 8-bit number, and convert it to decimal. If this number is 28 or more, subtract 28 from this number until it is a number between 0 and 27. This number would then correspond to the Unown symbol according to the following table:

 

[Rain Moon]

Has anyone tried RNGing specific Unown letters? I got a shiny Unown T that was supposed to be A. I followed the directions in the PID generation article, converting it to binary, etc. Is there something else to it, or is the article wrong? My Unown's PID is A8A0A8AC.

I've tried a second time with an Unown that should have also been an A, and was instead a Z. Its PID is 0282028C.

Haven't actually tried it myself, but I believe this is what you are looking for.

 

[Tatertot]

Has anyone tried RNGing specific Unown letters? I got a shiny Unown T that was supposed to be A. I followed the directions in the PID generation article, converting it to binary, etc. Is there something else to it, or is the article wrong? My Unown's PID is A8A0A8AC.

I've tried a second time with an Unown that should have also been an A, and was instead a Z. Its PID is 0282028C.

Hi! Which generation are you RNGing them in? (This thread is for Gen 5, and Unown isn’t obtainable there). If it’s Gen 4, Unown letters are not based on PID like they are in Gen 3. Check out this guide for HGSS which explains it in more detail (the tool that Rain linked above is an English version of the KnownUnown tool mentioned in the guide): https://docs.google.com/document/d/1YjgYbfFLINlN6WW2ZK-nFqPbkYIcARkCVlI10JkcC98/edit

 

[Fleety91]

I'm using Pokefinder 4.0.0 trying to find a ditto in the hidden grotto. I hit the correct timer0 but the Ditto didn't show up. would this have anything to do with the 'advances'?

I've tried for a Sneasel too with no luck.

mod edit: don't double post.

 

[shiny finder]

I'm using Pokefinder 4.0.0 trying to find a ditto in the hidden grotto. I hit the correct timer0 but the Ditto didn't show up. would this have anything to do with the 'advances'?

I've tried for a Sneasel too with no luck.

mod edit: don't double post.

Not sure how you figured out you hit the correct Timer0, but yes could do with advances or due to the fact that maybe you don't have all of the grottos filled before the one you're interested in. Possible also the tool is bugged? But I really haven't been keeping up with Pokefinder releases (and is probably more likely the formers)

I'd recommend starting with something easy, like a wild mon with no NPCs or a stationary so you can use the adjacent tool to see what you're actually hitting. More often than not it's Timer0 trolling.