Singles 3v3 Singles (BSS) Discussion

[DerpySuX]

I've been using Centiskorch as a sort of Zacian counter(I say counter cause, w/ Flame Body and resists to the top 3 moves, it is meant to switch in. That's not to say it's a perfect counter like Quag, but it's fun and does other stuff too.) I have only seen 1 on cart and 1 on Showdown, so it's obviously not common or even close, but I think it's good. I did reach top 3k w/ it, though I've since fallen a lot(not its fault, possibly a move choice problem.)

Does anyone think anything about it? It'd be great if it got some hype. The set I've been using is max HP/Def(for Zacian) Power Whip/ Mystical Fire/ Endure/ Rollout(! to at least try to hurt Ho-oh mainly. Ho-oh often ruins Centiskorch. Also you can basically assume it'll switch in so the move does something.) I gave up Will-o-wisp for Rollout, is this reasonable? Flame Body is already a good burn chance for Zacian, but it won't ever burn Dynamaxed mons so do I need Wisp? Centiskorch has fairly good 100/65/90 bulk and high Atk w/ ok SpA. Kinda slow, but faster than TTar, Steela, and below(Not mine, it's mixed so needs -Spe nature cause I obviously can't use Lax.)

Besides Zacian Cent tends to beat Rilla very well. W/ Knock Off it can go after Caly-S, or it can run the very poorly distributed Fire Lash for P2 and stuff. Power Whip is great for(potentially) surprising 4x weaks, cause even though Cent LOOKS like it'd learn Power Whip, a mon so rare isn't obvious in what it may run. This mon also has a few other options, even Scald though it's fire type.

I wanted to make a whole thread for it like some old ones for certain mons, but was redirected here why I'm posting. It'd be really neat to have this mon gain some usage, esp. cause of me. I'd also like discussion to happen on what set is best(for instance, my set gives up huge damage on Caly-S and breaking P2 for the best possible Zacian match-up-for Cent that is.) Idk if this mon would be much good in a Zapdos/Ace meta like before legends, but at least while Zacian roams freely and Rilla is huge on usage(few run Acrobatics I'm sure,) it seems to have good use.

Centiskorch sounds pretty neat. I’m assuming you run HDB on it because otherwise it has Charizard syndrome lol.

 

[Omastar68]

I would love to run HDB, but I find Custap Berry to be really good! Stall for burns, stall out Dynamax a tad, and get off a last attack, which is often Mystical Fire. Rocks do ruin Centiskorch's usefulness vs. Zacian, and mostly in general. Leading it isn't always great, it's my only grass attack so I may need to save it for 4x weaks in the back, plus it doesn't stop yawn cycles from the SR leads.

Boots are a strong option though, good idea. Or maybe I could run something better for stopping SR users. Rilla comes to mind. I'm glad you like the idea!

EDIT: CB might also be good.

252+ Atk Choice Band Centiskorch Fire Lash vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Zacian-Crowned: 186-218 (111.3 - 130.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO (100.00% after accuracy)

 

[DragonWhale]

(Known) Legend pairings of the top 100 in season 29 and rankings:

​

Restricted Pair​	Top Rank​	​	​	​	​	​	​	​	​	​	​	​	​	​
​	1​	​	​	​	​	​	​	​	​	​	​	​	​	​
​	2​	5​	7​	14​	16​	19​	21​	27​	38​	42​	50​	72​	92​	98​
​	3​	67​	68​	​	​	​	​	​	​	​	​	​	​	​
​	8​	83​	​	​	​	​	​	​	​	​	​	​	​	​
​	10​	15​	32​	33​	34​	46​	64​	71​	97​	​	​	​	​	​
​	22​	52​	​	​	​	​	​	​	​	​	​	​	​	​
​	25​	​	​	​	​	​	​	​	​	​	​	​	​	​
​	35​	​	​	​	​	​	​	​	​	​	​	​	​	​
​	36​	​	​	​	​	​	​	​	​	​	​	​	​	​
​	39​	​	​	​	​	​	​	​	​	​	​	​	​	​
​	40​	48​	59​	84​	​	​	​	​	​	​	​	​	​	​
​	43​	​	​	​	​	​	​	​	​	​	​	​	​	​
​	47​	56​	70​	​	​	​	​	​	​	​	​	​	​	​
​	48​	74​	​	​	​	​	​	​	​	​	​	​	​	​
​	53​	​	​	​	​	​	​	​	​	​	​	​	​	​
​	55​	​	​	​	​	​	​	​	​	​	​	​	​	​
​	57​	​	​	​	​	​	​	​	​	​	​	​	​	​
​	79​	​	​	​	​	​	​	​	​	​	​	​	​	​
​	80​	​	​	​	​	​	​	​	​	​	​	​	​	​
​	95​	​	​	​	​	​	​	​	​	​	​	​	​	​

 

[DerpySuX]

wait wait hold the fuck up, you mean to tell me someone used regular ass Zacian and made top 100

 

[Theorymon]

wait wait hold the fuck up, you mean to tell me someone used regular ass Zacian and made top 100

Not just regular Zacian, CB Zacian with DIG. The team also has a fast specially offensive Necromza-DM with what I think is... Heat Wave and Solar Beam?! Crazy ass team. Player posted a code, so we can try it!

https://takodare.hatenablog.com/entry/2022/05/01/201253

Somehow I find it just as crazy that Solgaleo actually cracked the top 50 though. I mean I guess I get it: its faster than Kyogre and Landorus-T unlike Necrozma-DM, and can't be Intimidate cycled, so you can probably do some cool Dynamax stuff with it. Didn't try it indepth though, but I did not expect it to get this far! The player also posted the team for this.

https://note.com/baya_sala/n/n290f046cbb24

 

[DerpySuX]

Not just regular Zacian, CB Zacian with DIG. The team also has a fast specially offensive Necromza-DM with what I think is... Heat Wave and Solar Beam?! Crazy ass team. Player posted a code, so we can try it!

https://takodare.hatenablog.com/entry/2022/05/01/201253

Somehow I find it just as crazy that Solgaleo actually cracked the top 50 though. I mean I guess I get it: its faster than Kyogre and Landorus-T unlike Necrozma-DM, and can't be Intimidate cycled, so you can probably do some cool Dynamax stuff with it. Didn't try it indepth though, but I did not expect it to get this far! The player also posted the team for this.

https://note.com/baya_sala/n/n290f046cbb24

Iirc Solgaleo also gets flare blitz or something so it’s not bothered by ferrothorn

 

[Omastar68]

Dialga gives me trouble sometimes, but from what I can see it did not make it top 100 that is known...that's interesting.

 

[DerpySuX]

Dialga gives me trouble sometimes, but from what I can see it did not make it top 100 that is known...that's interesting.

I’m sure there were a few Dialga in the top 1,000, but if I had to guess it would probably come down to being weak to Zacian’s common coverage in Close Combat, and also not having recovery is a big deal when you’re talking about switching in to such monstrous threats as the ones currently available.
Dialga also doesn’t appreciate common Zacian partners in Yveltal, Eternatus, Calyrex, etc, not to mention non restricted threats such as Urshifu, Darmanitan-G, Cinderace and Landorus.
Not to say Dialga is bad, but at the top level it probably just has a rough time against the main meta threats.

 

[singaporygon]

( 45% ) 30% vs 65% ( 40% FNT)

Finally the first Pokemon is taken down, and given how the match has been going it was no surprise Kuroko was ahead. The key point of this turn from Kuroko's perspective was whether Urshifu was going to Aqua Jet to take Zapdos out or Close Combat predicting the switch, to which he makes the safe route and sacks Zacian. Losing Zapdos to Aqua Jet will put Kuroko in a tough position, as Necrozma is not in range of Earth Power and can come in on Gastrodon next turn and regain health provided no special defense drops. Funnily enough, the Fire Blast damage on Zacian from several turns ago also impacted this turn, since if the Zacian was healthy then the guaranteed win was to sack Zapdos on the Aqua Jet and Swords Dance with Zacian the following turn. The lack of HP on Zacian meant that Zacian cannot SD in front of Urshifu, and removed that win condition. Going Gastrodon on a Close Combat is also bad, as the Gastrodon is forced to Recover and Necrozma can come in next turn and heal back up out of range of Zacian and Zapdos, and Gastrodon is necessary to stop Necrozma from sweeping under Trick Room. Zacian sack covers both options because if Urshifu CCs or Jets, Zapdos or Gastrodon respectively comes back in and takes out one of Urshifu or Necrozma, which cannot beat both Zapdos and Gastrodon by itself.

This is when Ito makes the play of the game. Ito knew Zacian guarantees the win against both Urshifu options, and knew Kuroko would therefore make that play, so Ito goes for neither of the above and dobules into Necrozma on the Zacian. This is a fantastic play and the fact that Ito recognized this option is extremely impressive.

( 30%) 45% vs 40% ( 65% FNT)

Up until now, Kuroko was ahead the entire game, but that one play turned everything around. The main significance of the Necrozma play on the Zacian is that Zacian cannot kill Necrozma this turn, letting Ito heal Necrozma up again and nullifying all the progress Kuroko made against the Necrozma with the Gastrodon. Kuroko is forced to switch out into Gastrodon as Necrozma regains HP with Morning Sun.

Thanks for sharing and thanks so much for a fantastic write up!!

I'm wondering, at the beginning of the turn where jet-ranged Zapdos was against Ursh, couldn't Kuroko go into Gastro instead of Zac? If Ursh then took out gastro with CC, Zapdos could come back in and take out either one or both with Tbolt, thus winning or allowing Zac to win the game. Or instead if Ito doubled into NDM like he did, it'd be now the 40% NDM facing against a healthy Gastro, and Gastro could keep using Earth Power to prevent NDM from staying healthy.

 

[DerpySuX]

Thanks for sharing and thanks so much for a fantastic write up!!

I'm wondering, at the beginning of the turn where jet-ranged Zapdos was against Ursh, couldn't Kuroko go into Gastro instead of Zac? If Ursh then took out gastro with CC, Zapdos could come back in and take out either one or both with Tbolt, thus winning or allowing Zac to win the game. Or instead if Ito doubled into NDM like he did, it'd be now the 40% NDM facing against a healthy Gastro, and Gastro could keep using Earth Power to prevent NDM from staying healthy.

The looming threat of NDM mounting a counter sweep with TR is the reason for needing to keep Gastrodon alive.
The Zacian play was the safest, since Zapdos was the most threatening mon, and with Gastrodon being needed to stop a dusk mane sweep, Zacian is the most dispensable Pokémon available to Kuroko.
Ito doubling to dusk mane was not an immediately apparent play, as it is threatened by both Zapdos and Gastrodon, there was no intuitive reason to expect that play, which is what makes Ito’s play that much more impressive.
Sure, hypothetically, if what you described happened, then yeah, it would’ve been beneficial, but weighing the risk/reward of such a play, it wasn’t worth it in Kuroko’s mind.

 

[Theorymon]

Nouthuca has updated for Season 30!

https://nouthuca.com/topic/?code=g8s30single

Haven't looked at the teams indepth yet, but a few shallow things I noticed

- 2 major teams won with a Lugia with NO attacks. First one is at least Thunder Wave / Whirlwind / Substitute / Recover, sounds like an utter nightmare to face if it gets in a favorable timerstall set up lmao. Might have to get myself a shiny Lugia this month...

- Incineroar is popping up on a lot of these teams (and it even won last month). I think it's fair to say that Incineroar has firmly established itself!

- There's a lot of Scarf Calyrex-S. Haven't looked at their EVs (would not be surprised if a lot of them were EVed to take a Behemoth Blade though), but it makes sense to me. IMO its the easiest set to slot in, and Trick makes it a legit threat to stall teams, great mon!

- There seems to be less Quagsire around so far with Nouthuca's data collection. It's still around for sure, but I guess people are just preparing for it more.

 

[DerpySuX]

I’ve faced the 0 attack Lugia teams a couple times, and even with Yveltal, it’s an absolute nightmare if it gets going. Even if you manage to get the taunt off, odds are you took a paralysis in the process, and as such are crippled against the other Uber on the opponents’ team (I usually see Zacian, but I have seen a few Zygarde and Kyogre as well). There are of course ways to beat it with minimal losses, but the simple fact that almost nobody would expect a no attack set is enough for it to eventually find that opening it wants to start annoying you.

 

[Omastar68]

Nouthuca has updated for Season 30!

https://nouthuca.com/topic/?code=g8s30single

Haven't looked at the teams indepth yet, but a few shallow things I noticed

- 2 major teams won with a Lugia with NO attacks. First one is at least Thunder Wave / Whirlwind / Substitute / Recover, sounds like an utter nightmare to face if it gets in a favorable timerstall set up lmao. Might have to get myself a shiny Lugia this month...

- Incineroar is popping up on a lot of these teams (and it even won last month). I think it's fair to say that Incineroar has firmly established itself!

- There's a lot of Scarf Calyrex-S. Haven't looked at their EVs (would not be surprised if a lot of them were EVed to take a Behemoth Blade though), but it makes sense to me. IMO its the easiest set to slot in, and Trick makes it a legit threat to stall teams, great mon!

- There seems to be less Quagsire around so far with Nouthuca's data collection. It's still around for sure, but I guess people are just preparing for it more.

Omg someone placed 9th w/ Bronzing! I asked before about it here, and have used it for a while.

Ho-oh/Caly-s is more popular than I knew about. Should I be running that w/ my Ho-oh? I have Palkia. It's for ogre, largely.

 

[michael calicchio]

Nouthuca has updated for Season 30!

https://nouthuca.com/topic/?code=g8s30single

Haven't looked at the teams indepth yet, but a few shallow things I noticed

- 2 major teams won with a Lugia with NO attacks. First one is at least Thunder Wave / Whirlwind / Substitute / Recover, sounds like an utter nightmare to face if it gets in a favorable timerstall set up lmao. Might have to get myself a shiny Lugia this month...

- Incineroar is popping up on a lot of these teams (and it even won last month). I think it's fair to say that Incineroar has firmly established itself!

- There's a lot of Scarf Calyrex-S. Haven't looked at their EVs (would not be surprised if a lot of them were EVed to take a Behemoth Blade though), but it makes sense to me. IMO its the easiest set to slot in, and Trick makes it a legit threat to stall teams, great mon!

- There seems to be less Quagsire around so far with Nouthuca's data collection. It's still around for sure, but I guess people are just preparing for it more.

Anyway to translate some teams from here ?

 

[Theorymon]

Anyway to translate some teams from here ?

Unfortunately not a ton of people on Smogon know Japanese and have the time to do that. However if it helps much, I find using the google translate homepage can help make SOME stuff understandable!

Move-wise, Bulbapedia has move translations, so you can search for moves and often eventually find what someone is using if they just post a picture of their team with no team codes!

 

[michael calicchio]

Unfortunately not a ton of people on Smogon know Japanese and have the time to do that. However if it helps much, I find using the google translate homepage can help make SOME stuff understandable!

Move-wise, Bulbapedia has move translations, so you can search for moves and often eventually find what someone is using if they just post a picture of their team with no team codes!

Thank you

 

[Omastar68]

Is Celesteela lacking in this meta? I have bad memory, but I'm pretty sure I haven't seen any for a while.

 

[DerpySuX]

Is Celesteela lacking in this meta? I have bad memory, but I'm pretty sure I haven't seen any for a while.

Steela is doing just fine. Defensive sets can annoy a wide array of NDM sets and makes a decent enough BBlade sponge, and the mix up of it potentially being offensive always weighs in the opponents mind.

 

[Omastar68]

Ok, just me being lucky or forgetful that I don't see it

 

[Ika Ika Musume]

Thank you

PM me if you need any help

 

[DerpySuX]

Thanks to the PS Staff for implementing a BSS ladder for SV so quickly. It is much appreciated!

Anyway, here’s some observations I made over my first day of gen 9 BSS.

—NOTABLE THREATS—​

- This was the Pokémon I had my eyes on the most coming into SV, and I have to say it did not disappoint. While I was a little sad to not see Swords Dance in its movepool, Choice Band and Sash are great variants, access to both Knock Off and Sucker Punch for Dark STAB allows it to be either a revenge killer or a wall breaker, depending on what your team needs, and of course Flower Trick has some ludicrous calcs.

- fastest mon in the metagame with regieleki gone for the time being. Great pivot and revenge killer, can run a variety of great sets. Terastalizing really helps it out by powering up a STAB or coverage of your choice, not like it needed much help in the power department.

- Insanely fast and powerful attacker, and photosynthesis allowing you to make it either faster or stronger can be game breaking without sufficient counterplay. Definitely a mon to look out for and keep in mind when teambuilding.

- I’ve wanted a Fairy/Fighting type for so long, and the first one we get is insanely good imo. The STABs just compliment each other so well, and you’ve no shortage of good coverage options to choose from, add swords dance on top of that, this thing is a cleaner extraordinaire.

- same as always, spore and then hit hard, this time we have Close Combat for fighting STAB, and terastalizing this thing allows for some funny stuff. I managed to beat an Amoonguss in a 1 on 1 by spamming tera close combat Lmfao.

- This is basically what you’d get if Weavile and Zacian had a disgusting love child. While it’s not quite Zacian levels of strong, it’s definitely nothing to write off, sword of ruin is a ridiculous ability and when combined with Chien Pao’s incredible STAB combo and high power, it can end games very quickly. Definitely a wise idea to keep a revenge killer around for it.

- Another Mon I had my eyes on when I saw it leaked, and while I don’t think this one is anything too crazy, I still find it quite good and very fun to use. Loaded Dice Icicle Spear is probably one of the funniest moves I’ve seen in my time playing mons. If nothing else, Baxcalibur’s appearance on a team sheet will make opponents hesitant to click will o wisp, or really any fire move, so it’s nice to have around in that sense.

- same old Mimikyu, this time with some new moves because apparently it couldn’t do enough already. User friendly as always, though with multiple hit moves and loaded dice making them more consistent, it’s not quite as plug and play as prior gens.

—SOME MONS I LIKE—​

- it’s Quag but more funne, and the typing is pretty cool.

- I’m putting this here instead of in the notable threats section because I’ve seen and have mixed opinions on it. It’s quite strong, but inconsistent from my experience. Still fun to mess around with.


Overall I’m having quite a lot of fun with SV BSS so far. Hopefully this helps people who might be struggling a little bit. Happy battles!

 

[Tachipoyo]

Gholdengo has been really good from my experience, I think the fact that it shuts down Breloom and Amoonguss means it'll very much be a prevalent Pokemon in the metagame.

The downside, as is with many Pokemon, that its weak to Mimikyu-- but Normal Terastalizing it can help to some degree. It is a bit wasteful to Terastalize Gholdengo though especially when its base type is so strong.

I hate Mimikyu

 

[ethan06]

i feel it

this is the gen i return

----
threw together a team and made it up to 1200 real quick, that's no numbers but the ladder is very fresh - this is a great time to be learning the meta :)

great thing about bss is the broken stuff sticks around all gen long, so the meta is pretty well defined from the start - i'm seeing a lot of roaring moon, a lot of flutter mane and a bunch of chi-yu, mimikyu volcarona palafin. i'm particularly enjoying iron valiant as a catch-all emergency check to a bunch of things, as well as sashed iron bundle, which is excellent as a lead. very keen to see how these basic dynamics flesh out as the meta matures :)

as an aside, terastallisation feels nice. it's highly volatile in 3v3, and the ladder is full of cheap type-baiting strats, but it mainly feels pretty similar to z-moves in that the game becomes much more predictable once they're revealed, and that they're often more telegraphed than you'd expect. it's also nice that terastallised mons are still very much killable and less liable to snowball than dynamax was.

here are some nifty sets:

nifty sets

Chi-Yu @ Assault Vest
Ability: Beads of Ruin
Level: 50
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Flame Charge
- Flamethrower
- Dark Pulse
- Psychic
(Tera: Dark) - this is nice because the fire type can be a defensive liability against things like palafin, and dark pulse is so spammable that boosting it makes a lot more sense than boosting flamethrower (or any other random coverage). been finding psychic to be just fine for nailing things like clodsire and being a decent midground optionin situations where the stabs are more prediction-heavy. flame charge is nice too for obvious reasons :)

Iron Valiant @ Booster Energy
Ability: Quark Drive
Level: 50
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Close Combat
- Spirit Break
- Shadow Sneak
- Liquidation
(Tera: Water) - mentioned this above: a very tidy volcarona lure! tempt the volc into setting up with a steel-type and bring this in on quiver. booster energy keeps you faster than +1 and you can simply pop your tera and liquidate. water's a fairly nice typing defensively as well - scizor seems to be pretty common as a stop to flutter mane, so being able to turn the tables on bullet punch is a nice secondary draw to this set. i feel like four attacks is the best approach here - sneak allows for another emergency flutter mane check and means you can get some hail mary check on a boosted sweeper if need be, and both stabs are useful in different situations so there's nothing here that makes me wish i had sd instead.

Iron Bundle @ Focus Sash
Ability: Quark Drive
Level: 50
Tera Type: Electric
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Flip Turn
- Freeze-Dry
- Hydro Pump
- Tera Blast
(Tera: Electric) - sash just makes sense on this mon. it's a fast pivot with great coverage in it's two stabs (freeze dry is just dumb on this) so sticking it in front of a boosted roaring moon is super brainless and easy. tera electric gets around any edge cases where freeze dry won't cut it (lookin at you spdef corv) and makes for a robust typing and additional stab, not to mention insurance against the odd prankster twave). tera grass might also be nice as a way of combatting spore!

 

[DerpySuX]

Alright so after a few days, most of my list is still fairly accurate. However there are some more things I want to acknowledge

- Gholdengo has proven itself to be a very notable threat. I really didn’t give it enough credit when I first saw it.

- Amogus has proven to be quite the defensive pick, being a bulky poison type and having access to spore. Side note - the abundance of spore in the metagame is a large contributor to gholdengo’s success rn.

- Scizor has proven to be extremely valuable for revenge killing things like Flutter Mane, Chien-Pao, and Iron Valiant. It’s a great catch all check to weakened sweepers as well. Very nice to have around imo

- Big thanks to Stark God for bringing this guy to my attention. Garganacl is incredible as a checkmate mon, in a similar vein to what Ferrothorn was doing in gens prior. Its signature ability, Purifying Salt, grants it a ghost resistance and a complete immunity to status. Its signature move, Salt Cure, is immensely useful as it spreads loads of passive chip and is very spammable. Absolutely one of my favorite mons to use right now, and I highly suggest you try it out.


Anyway that’s all from me for now, hope you’re all still enjoying SV!

 

[Omastar68]

Oof. I have to remind myself this is exciting, not work...Beat the game so no longer worried of spoilers and ready to start making stuff.

I imagine we'll actually see activity here w/ new stuff out, so it seems worth asking this(a move question, I'll have to figure out mons myself-I don't even know all the names lol much less types and then strats...) Does Chilling Water effectively replace Scald as the special water move for crippling physical attackers(-1, not 5-% for burn,) or is it actually WORSE(cause 30 less BP?) Or even more complex, could they work together?

EDIT: LOL disregard. They ditched Scald TM wth. So many TMs now and they drop a good one