Multi-gen 2v2 Doubles Premier League III - Tournament Discussion

The thread will be updated with resources / etc as we go on.

Questions:
  • Anyways, how are we going to do managers and slots? Usually, we've been looking at 4 * 8 or 6 * 6, teams * slots.
  • Slots for 8 would be 4x SS, 2x SM, 1x ORAS 1x BW (6 slots would remove an SS and an SM) right? Or do we want to talk about removing ORAS?
 

Itchy

take all my data, what will you find?
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Previous format worked great :blobthumbsup:

Please for the love of all that is sacred do not let 20k Morgan + Mishimono (or even zio + STABLE) be a reality. One of a) a price formula, b) custom prices, or c) a raised manager self buy price should be implemented imo - any of these would be more fair than a 10k flat price. Idk about specifics for any of these, just putting the ideas out there :wo:
 
I’d say 20% of budget assuming 6x6 with 3 subs, 15% if 4x8. My issue with scaling prices is it isn’t rlly fair or accurate considering some managers may not have participated in the most recent team tours etc
 
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Evie

Nobody gets me like you
is a Tiering Contributor
SS 2v2pl Redacted Regidragos match review
structure taken from Morgan’s OMPL 2v2 post

Game 1
:dracozolt::hippowdon::volcanion::tapu-lele: vs :cresselia::pheromosa::zeraora::tapu-fini:
Dracozolt Hippowdon vs Zeraora Cresselia
Reece has a good matchup here, Toxic Hippowdon beats Cresselia and Zeraora, Dracozolt beats Tapu Fini and Pheromosa

Game 2
:celesteela::talonflame::regidrago::landorus-therian: vs :regidrago::genesect::zeraora::talonflame:
Talonflame Landorus-T vs Talonflame Genesect
Talonflame Landorus-T has a great matchup here if you cover for Ice Beam Genesect

Game 3
:cresselia::incineroar::rillaboom::tapu-fini: vs :indeedee-f::zapdos-galar::victini::metagross:
Tapu Fini Cresselia vs Metagross Zapdos-G
Reece makes a great play here, locking Metagross into Steel Roller
Game 1
:landorus-therian::tapu-koko::tsareena::talonflame: vs :mew::incineroar::tapu-fini::regieleki:
Tapu Koko Landorus-T vs Incineroar Mew
Mew is very hard to beat as none of Orangex’s Pokemon have good damage into it and don’t have ways of stopping it set up

Game 2
:weavile::diancie::naganadel::cinderace: vs :politoed::kingdra::celesteela::regieleki:
Naganadel Diancie vs Regieleki Politoed
Regieleki OHKOs all of Orangex’s Pokemon

Game 3
:tapu-fini::victini::zygarde::genesect: vs :sableye::cinderace::tapu-fini::talonflame:
Tapu Fini Victini vs Sableye Cinderace
Victini has a great matchup here, just has to be wary of Sableye

Game 4
:Tapu-fini::victini::zygarde::genesect: vs :mew::incineroar::tapu-fini::regieleki:
Tapu Fini Genesect vs Tapu Fini Incineroar
Orangex wins due to a lucky crit

Game 5
:tapu-fini::victini::zygarde::genesect: vs :sableye::cinderace::tapu-fini::talonflame:
Victini Tapu Fini vs Talonflame Cinderace
Orangex misplays here, could have won
Game 1
:celesteela::cinderace::regidrago::talonflame: vs :politoed::kingdra::celesteela::regieleki:
Talonflame Regidrago vs Politoed Kingdra
Scarf Regidrago Talonflame autowins

Game 2
:weavile::regieleki::victini::tsareena: vs :cresselia::incineroar::rillaboom::tapu-fini:
Regieleki Victini vs Rillaboom Incineroar
Incineroar beats all of Milo’s team except Regieleki which Rillaboom OHKOs

Game 3
:kingdra::politoed::cinderace::togekiss: vs :naganadel::heatran::blastoise::rillaboom:
Cinderace Togekiss vs Naganadel Blastoise
Blastoise protects Naganadel from Cinderace while Naganadel KOs togekiss then OHKOs Cinderace

Game 4
:metagross::victini::spectrier::tapu-fini: vs :regidrago::talonflame::rillaboom::zeraora:
Metagross Victini vs Zeraora Rillaboom
Victini Encores Rillaboom into Fake Out, essentially KOing it

Game 5
:diancie::porygon2::rillaboom::volcanion: vs :primarina::zygarde::diancie::heatran:
Rillaboom Volcanion vs Heatran Diancie
Rillaboom Volcanion has a good matchup here
Game 1
:diancie::porygon2::rillaboom::volcanion: vs :politoed::kingdra::kartana::zeraora:
Volcanion Rillaboom vs Kingdra Politoed
Volcanion Rillaboom has a great matchup

Game 2
:cinderace::zapdos-galar::kyurem-black::grimmsnarl: vs :cresselia::zapdos-galar::dracovish::rillaboom:
Grimmsnarl Kyurem-B vs Zapdos-G Dracovish
Cresselia autowins unless Grimmsnarl has Taunt, I don’t know why it wasn’t picked

Game 3
:diancie::porygon2::rillaboom::volcanion: vs :kyurem::aegislash::cinderace::milotic:
Volcanion Diancie vs Aegislash Kyurem
Volcanion has a good matchup here, although Orangex has to make a prediction on whether Nick.see will bring Milotic
Game 1
:incineroar::regieleki::genesect::blastoise: vs :mr-mime::terrakion::dracovish::pheromosa:
Incineroar Genesect vs Dracovish Mr.Mime
Blastoise Regieleki has a good matchup, don’t know why it wasn’t brought

Game 2
:rillaboom::hawlucha::primarina::volcarona: vs :regieleki::zeraora::naganadel::zygarde:
Rillaboom Volcarona vs Zeraora Naganadel
Naganadel has a great matchup here

Game 3
:incineroar::kyurem::tapu-koko::pheromosa: vs :rillaboom::mew::victini::blastoise:
Incineroar Kyurem vs Mew Rillaboom
Milo gets a lucky crit

Game 4
:indeedee-f::regidrago::metagross::suicune: vs :sableye::dracovish::regieleki::pheromosa:
Indeedee-F Regidrago vs Sableye Dracovish
Scarf Regidrago claims

Game 5
:metagross::victini::spectrier::tapu-fini: vs :porygon2::landorus-therian::cinderace::pheromosa:
DannyDoritos makes a good play, covering for scarf Tapu Fini
Game 1
:zygarde::regieleki::incineroar::ninetales-alola: vs :politoed::kingdra::regieleki::genesect:
Incineroar Regieleki vs Politoed Kingdra
Reece covered for Kingdra protecting but Kingdra used Surf

Game 2
:landorus-therian::tapu-koko::tsareena::talonflame: vs :tapu-koko::cinderace::landorus-therian::moltres-galar:
Landorus-T Tapu Koko vs Landorus T Moltres-G
Tsareena might have been a good pick if it had Triple Axel, i don’t know if it did

Game 3
:tsareena::victini::dragapult::regieleki: vs :talonflame::regidrago::landorus-therian::metagross:
Victini Regieleki vs Regidrago Talonflame
Regidrago Talonflame autowins this matchup
Game 1
:tapu-fini::victini::zygarde::genesect: vs :zygarde::togekiss::genesect::zeraora:
Tapu Fini Victini vs Togekiss Genesect
Victini beats all of RobDog747’s team except Zygarde which Tapu Fini beats

Game 2
:incineroar::kyurem::tapu-koko::pheromosa: vs :hippowdon::celesteela::dracozolt::kyurem-black
Incineroar Kyurem vs Hippowdon Dracozolt
Kyurem Incineroar has a great matchup

Game 3
:tapu-koko::pheromosa::zygarde::volcarona: vs :celesteela::kyurem-black::landorus-therian::cresselia:
Volcarona Pheromosa vs Landorus-T Cresselia
Helping Hand Earthquake OHKOs Volcarona and does 90 to Pheromosa

Game 4
:zygarde::regieleki::incineroar::ninetales-alola: vs :mew::rillaboom::incineroar::zygarde:
Ninetales-A Zygarde vs Zygarde Incineroar
RobDog747 could have won if they clicked Dragon Dance with Zygarde if they had it
Game 1
:aegislash::tapu-fini::tsareena::cinderace: vs :regidrago::talonflame::celesteela::genesect:
Tapu Fini Cinderace vs Talonflame Celesteela
Frogfacts could have won if he Protected with Cinderace but i assume he didn’t think Brave Bird would OHKO

Game 2
:politoed::kingdra::zapdos::genesect: vs :celesteela::landorus::kyurem-black::talonflame:
Zapdos Politoed vs Celesteela Kyurem-B
Hugo throws against a dry toad

Game 3
:mimikyu::regidrago::cinderace::indeedee-f: vs :kingdra::torkoal::pelipper::lilligant:
Mimikyu Regidrago vs Pelipper Kingdra
Frogfacts doesn’t account for Wide Guard Pelipper, could have won

Game 4
:alcremie::kyurem-black::tapu-fini::incineroar: vs :rillaboom::genesect::tapu-fini::dracovish:
Incineroar Alcremie vs Genesect Tapu Fini
hax from both sides

Game 5
:zapdos::indeedee-f::victini::araquanid: vs :celesteela::landorus::kyurem-black::talonflame:
Araquanid Victini vs Landorus Kyurem-B
Hugo makes a good play, protecting Landorus while KOing araquanid
Game 1
:mew::rillaboom::zapdos-galar::togekiss: vs :entei::landorus::genesect::zeraora:
Rillaboom Togekiss vs Genesect Zeraora
Genesect Landorus autowins, I don’t know why it wasn’t picked

Game 2
:torkoal::cresselia::zapdos-galar::lilligant: vs :regidrago::talonflame::celesteela::genesect:
Torkoal Lilligant vs Genesect Talonflame
TTTech plays well this game, not much to say

Game 3
:regieleki::metagross::zapdos-galar::diancie: vs :dracovish::talonflame::victini::zeraora:
Regieleki Diancie vs Dracovish Talonflame
Dracovish Talonflame autowins this

Game 4
:metagross::zeraora::latios::primarina: vs :porygon2::indeedee-f::zapdos::dracovish:
Metagross Zeraora vs Indeedee-F Dracovish
TTTech should have clicked Follow Me with Indeedee-F

Game 5
:zeraora::cinderace::landorus-therian::indeedee-f: vs :dracovish::talonflame::victini::zeraora:
Landorus-T Zeraora vs Zeraora Dracovish
Milo gets a lucky flinch to win the set

will update as pl goes on
 

IBM

Banned deucer.
https://pokepast.es/6b93e64c9b2c84e9

My bw builder

Quick thoughts about stuff:

:infernape: :tyranitar:
One thing I thought was cool but didn’t bring much is scarf ttar + infernape which beats like everything except deo a and aero, the core together actually beats scarf metagross even though individually they lose bc ttar walls zen and nape walls mash

:latios: :volcarona: :Aerodactyl:
This core just beats p much everything except opposing aero

:Blastoise:
Super fat for no reason

:Aerodactyl: :Terrakion:
Rock types in general are really good rn bc of volc/genie/kyub spam
 

yuki

Huh? Me? Not this time...
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https://pokepast.es/54a3241a1d63338c

ORAS builder on the way to 6-1. This is every team I used that I didn't just verbatim rip from somewhere (at least stuff that I did the movesets and EVs for. I did use a couple teams that I think STABLE and Sanshokuinsumireko used. Both had team ideas I really liked, and what's the point of reinventing the wheel, especially in a format I had to learn. Very possible I nicked a few teams that I saw other players using this PL, but I didn't have pastes for those so this is what I did with those teams.)

You really can just spam double mega, Shaymin-Sky and Deoxys-A and do really well.
 
bw post bw post

Teams: https://pokepast.es/a7d63a7ebb28def7
Built most by myself, got some help from IBM and radu at the end.
Didn't get to bring the very top one, that's a bonus :)

vr thoughts
I think the current vr holds up mostly, however

-Blastoise C -> A-
being a fat water with follow me is really nice especially since it's not weak to rock slide and resists heat wave unlike the other redirectors
if it had fake out follow me it would obviously be insane but just follow me + icy wind is still really good support

-Excadrill B+ -> B, maybe lower
I tried to build with it like once and gave up, ttar exca is a meme and outside of sand it doesn't have much going over meta other than I suppose beating other metagrosses
Togekiss drill is probably aight but at that point I'd rather use mamo or chomp and actually beat the fire types with my ground type

Kyurem C- -> B+ or B
The mon has one use which is running scarf and being slightly stronger than kyub but that actually matters
252 SpA Teravolt Kyurem-Black Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Infernape: 286-337 (97.6 - 115%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Kyurem Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Infernape: 304-358 (103.7 - 122.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 SpA Teravolt Kyurem-Black Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Thundurus: 356-420 (98.3 - 116%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Kyurem Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Thundurus: 374-444 (103.3 - 122.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO

etc.
just look at any team that runs timid scarf kyub and consider the fact that the team's infernape matchup would be better if it was kyurem instead

Liepard C- -> B+
I think this mon is genuinely good (I had good success with it in the PL for what that's worth), fake out encore is insane no matter how you look at it, and being a dark type is really good in this meta. Foul play can make up for its lack of offense pretty well (with dark gem it ohkos latios and does massive damage to kyub, for example), or it can use sucker punch to kill latios and deoa, which is pretty big for a mon with as much support.
(also fake tears is surprisingly good)
0- Atk Dark Gem Liepard Foul Play vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Latios: 302-356 (100.3 - 118.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Dark Gem Liepard Foul Play vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Kyurem-Black: 312-367 (79.7 - 93.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

64 Atk Dark Gem Liepard Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Latios: 302-356 (100.3 - 118.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Heatran B -> B+, maybe higher
I think heatran is underrated (surely it is at least better than chandelure even with how much I love that mon), specifically scarf heatran. with the right support (liepard!!!) scarf eruption threatens insane damage, and being able to somewhat 1v1 latios is always good. heatran is both good against follow me teams and generic metagross kyub teams, which are both pretty common.

Salamence UR -> C-
the mon is somewhat flawed but intimidate + beating scrafty and ape + faster than gene and kills it with heat wave + strong enough dragon gem draco + can beat heatran with hydro pump are a good enough collection of attributes that I think make this mon viable, even if just barely. it is worse than the good dragons and hates scarfers but I think with careful building it can be pretty effective. It works very well with blastoise but I mean so does every dragon.

I've seen people talk about tini and volc, and while I agree they're both really good they're already ranked fairly high.

other thoughts
bw rules this is the best 2v2 gen, always has been, always will be
it's pretty top heavy (if you're not using meta/gene (or some other team specific steel), one of the good dragons, and some way to deal with both of these you're not creative you're throwing) but that's ok
nothing feels overwhelming to deal with either (kyub is still insane but we have metagross, and maybe in 20XX liepard will get suspected)

And if you're looking at this and thinking to yourself "oh I really want to play bw but I don't understand the tier very well", just remember that
Scrafty = Rock
Tornadus = Paper
Kyub = Scissors
Latios = Lizard
Infernape= Spock
Metagross = Gun

have a nice day
 

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