I really want to knoow who that ground immunity is being used again,, are you actually going to switch onto a Snorlax Earthquake prediction (how do you predict EQ unless you use GarZard which sounds awful)
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OU RBY OU Ladder / "Jank" Discussion Thread
- Thread starter emma
- Start date
Charizard is tiered near them, Dragonite’s in UU, Victreebel most likely drops to NU on Monday, and Charizard, trailblazer that he is, is already down in NU waiting for Vic to join him.
also lmfao ladder players bring pikachu and blastoise, let’s not get too hyped that iconic starter pokémon has some usage among 10 year olds
Still bypasses reflect, Tauros only beats reflect lax through luck. You can switch tauros out on reflect lax, but if something gets paralyzed on the switch, is it still over?
Poliwrath is fun. Not enough people try it.
"Why bother when there's Slowbro?"
1.) Extra speed, which is great when you have...
2.) ...the more immediate power of a +2 Hydro Pump
3.) All those in a package that will guaranteed survive a critical hit Hyper Beam from Tauros at full health
4.) Style
A long time ago I wanted to make a team to minimize bad matchups for ladder. I ended up with the below, but there were two things that were different in the old version:
--> 
Jynx is just a better lead overall. Eggy leads have more bad matchups than good, but if you manage a successful 2-for-1 trade with sleep + boom, you have less obstacles for your sweeper. Emphasis on if.
Seismic Toss/Sing/Thunder Wave/Soft-boiled ------> Ice Beam/Thunderbolt/Thunder Wave/Soft-boiled
The Chansey set changed with the lead, now Waters are much more manageable
https://pokepast.es/96425cd439c5dc78
Poliwrath has pretty terrible defensive typing. Losing HP permanently and being weak to Psychic had to be accounted for, so I had to build something that wasn't just a Slowbro team where I changed one slot.
All special was what I went with. Submission gives me a mon where half of the moves make me cross my fingers when clicking them. I advocated for Hypnosis for a while until enough games made me look at it as a waste of a turn. Hypnosis often misses, and creates a tragic situation where another team member will have to clean up Poliwrath's mess for it. If what I really want to do is click Amnesia once or twice and maximize my attacking turns, I'd be better off with more coverage.
Alakazam in the midgame adds a lot to this team. You have: more speed (enough not to be sniped by Wrap), a second special wall, resistance to Psychic spam, Thunder Wave support, and a way to help handle Zapdos without needing Jolteon or Rhydon. But in an emergency, he can be sacked to sleep should you ever be unable to sack Jynx or use her to sleep block. The rest looks pretty obvious.
If you want to change nothing but the Snorlax set, MonoLax is fine for better breaking power and better Zapdos matchup.
Once again I have very little surviving evidence post-replay purge. The only context needed I suppose is that I already knew the Eggy had Hyper Beam:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen1ou-2051113817
Have fun, and battle on!
"Why bother when there's Slowbro?"
1.) Extra speed, which is great when you have...
2.) ...the more immediate power of a +2 Hydro Pump
3.) All those in a package that will guaranteed survive a critical hit Hyper Beam from Tauros at full health
4.) Style
A long time ago I wanted to make a team to minimize bad matchups for ladder. I ended up with the below, but there were two things that were different in the old version:
--> Jynx is just a better lead overall. Eggy leads have more bad matchups than good, but if you manage a successful 2-for-1 trade with sleep + boom, you have less obstacles for your sweeper. Emphasis on if.
Seismic Toss/Sing/Thunder Wave/Soft-boiled ------> Ice Beam/Thunderbolt/Thunder Wave/Soft-boiled
The Chansey set changed with the lead, now Waters are much more manageable
https://pokepast.es/96425cd439c5dc78
Poliwrath has pretty terrible defensive typing. Losing HP permanently and being weak to Psychic had to be accounted for, so I had to build something that wasn't just a Slowbro team where I changed one slot.
All special was what I went with. Submission gives me a mon where half of the moves make me cross my fingers when clicking them. I advocated for Hypnosis for a while until enough games made me look at it as a waste of a turn. Hypnosis often misses, and creates a tragic situation where another team member will have to clean up Poliwrath's mess for it. If what I really want to do is click Amnesia once or twice and maximize my attacking turns, I'd be better off with more coverage.
Alakazam in the midgame adds a lot to this team. You have: more speed (enough not to be sniped by Wrap), a second special wall, resistance to Psychic spam, Thunder Wave support, and a way to help handle Zapdos without needing Jolteon or Rhydon. But in an emergency, he can be sacked to sleep should you ever be unable to sack Jynx or use her to sleep block. The rest looks pretty obvious.
If you want to change nothing but the Snorlax set, MonoLax is fine for better breaking power and better Zapdos matchup.
Once again I have very little surviving evidence post-replay purge. The only context needed I suppose is that I already knew the Eggy had Hyper Beam:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen1ou-2051113817
Have fun, and battle on!
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Melanie goes boating
formerly Kale EO Trixiewagon
In my experience, Poliwrath does best with Amnesia Hypnosis Surf Blizzard/Submission depending on if your team is weaker to eggy or Chansey. It happens to be a nice secondary sleeper faster than eggy just in case your Jynx whiffs sleep and dies.
I completely forgot Golduck even existed. That's an interesting suggestion. I want to try that now.
I don't see the point in using Poliwrath without Hydro Pump. I would just pick Slowbro at that point.
I did used to run Hypnosis over Blizzard for a while, and it definitely would help with the team I posted. That's the only substitution I'd make if I didn't already have some trust issues with it.
I'm genuinely curious how often you use Submission and what you get out of it. When I ran what used to be the main strategy dex set of Hypnosis/Amnesia/Surf/Submission, I barely clicked sub. It hits Chansey sure, but no one is leaving Chansey in on a fighting type. They don't leave it in unless they have no choice and/or you're both down to your last mons. Sure a Sub hits the normals harder than unboosted water moves, but...is it worth it when you consider the recoil?
I remember talking to Amaranth in an old thread some years ago and finding out that you have a chance to live Slam -> Slam -> Beam from Tauros and, sure enough, the numbers check out. The recoil would actually rob you of that chance, though.
It looks to me like sub is normally an option with few use cases, and a liability at worst. Unless there's replays with practical examples to show me something I missed.
Golduck is already a liability vs Psychics, if I have a Golduck in vs any standard team, the standard will aways go to chansey, starmie or alakazam and block golduck from doing anything. They also have other options like, Jolteon, Cloyster, Lapras..maybe Zapdos.
Poliwrath is better than golduck IMO.
Submission: Makes it possible to KO Chansey when coming in, but because poliwrath also has amnesia which forces the need of them to prevent Poliwrath from boosting up.
Poliwrath has hypnosis: Even if it's not on your set, hypnosis can act as a bluff that you have it.
Fighting type means: earthquake resistance means its similar to exeggutor, which means Poliwrath can come in on Rhydon and force Rhydon to swap, which creates a turn to use one of the following: submission, hypnosis, blizzard, amnesia, hydro pump.
But how do I swap in Golduck???
Is it vs a chansey Ice beam? No.
Is it a starmie blizzard? No.
Is it vs Snorlax? I doubt it.
Is it vs a STAB Exeggutor psychic? Well, theoretically it can, but thats a lot of damage.
Poliwrath isn't fantastic, but might be D-tier, where Golduck is likely a full tier lower.
Amnesia isn't usually OP, Chansey/Starmie/Alakazam block it well enough. Explosion users also prevent it from being a big issue.
Slowbro I'm trying to argue that it isn't even quite OU and should be borderline.
Snorlax is seldom better off with Amnesia.
Golduck is mostly bad...
Poliwrath is mostly bad...
...Mewtwo would be Uber even without Amnesia.
Although I'd be interested in what thoughts are about the move: Growth. Is it ever viable?
Edit: after looking at what has growth is:
Victreebel
Venasaur
Tangela
Parasect
Non of that is viable with growth.
Meditate is ever viable? Is maybe a better question.
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trust him, we just dont quite understand him just yet, a misunderstood genius
Charizard isn't itself why, it's just very under-rated. Gengar and Jynx are both better obviously, as they both resist psychic type leads, while being fast sleepers.
Melanie goes boating
formerly Kale EO Trixiewagon
Gengar doesn't resist Psychic
My bad yet again, I forgot that dark types aren't in gen1, let me rebuild my thoughts with these 2 leads instead: Jynx and Alakazam both resist psychic types and both are offensively and defensively versatile.
Melanie goes boating
formerly Kale EO Trixiewagon
That's better, let's also add fakelead Starmie at being good since it's nice at baiting turn 1 twaves into a switch to non-Reflect Chansey. :)
I don't understand "fakelead starmie" so I added Charizard and Rhydon as good late game offensive sweepers, which have both offensive and defensive qualities.
What are Charizards defensive qualities lmao?
It's flying typing allows it to switch into earthquakes from opposing snorlax, which then allows the charizard player to play vs a lower hp snorlax for later in the match, or outpredict a starmie swap for a body Slam, or chansey swap.
How are you baiting Earthquakes from Snorlax without using a team that losses to Starmie and Alakazam like nothing else. Chansey takes barely anything from Charizards Body Slam, and before you say Submission, that move has 80% accuracy and 3HKOes Chansey.
SD if predict is swap, then SD again, tank the ice beam, and 1 shot.
Gengar naturally goes with charizard, so snorlax uses Earthquake on gengar, charizard swaps in. Charizard then once in either will duke it out with snorlax
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Just realized nidoking should be OU too
L take, Nidoqueen is better tbh
please stop cooking now we are not prepared for more enlightened plays
Nidoking genuinely can come in on any thunder move for free, immune. Then attack with any attack with a movepool the size of jupiter.
I'm fact, I'm going to go out and say Nidoking is better than even tauros, it's only definitely OU.
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