Charuzard can not do shit to Starmie, a mon whos on >70% of all serious teams, what do you mean by Big 4 what; Body Slam para? even if you do manage to paralyze it, now what lmao? And on Charizards wide set variety, you should never be running Submission, let alone clicking it predicting a Chansey switchin lol. You can't switch into Exeggutor Sleep Powder either, that sounds like heavy throwing. Charizard can "sweep" if they bring a Pinsir. Its just worse Moltres in most ways.
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OU RBY OU Ladder / "Jank" Discussion Thread
- Thread starter emma
- Start date
No it's not lmao, moltres isn't even close. Charizards move pool has Earthquake, Submission, Swords Dance, hyper beam, moltres can only do 1 thing, unlike Charizard which is versatile. How do you switch into a movepool like that?
A)
B) stop pretending Submission is a real move on Charizard
C) the one thing Moltres can do is 10x better than the 3 things Charizard does shittily
Okay well if you think it's not decent I'll use it in OU and win most tournaments guarenteed.
Please do, shut me up real good
Charizard swaps into (low hp)Snorlax EQ, is completely IMMUNE, then sets up SD. Submission is for Chansey. Your forgetting about flying type immunity. I can take it to win any non SPL level tournA)
B) stop pretending Submission is a real move on Charizard
C) the one thing Moltres can do is 10x better than the 3 things Charizard does shittily
Can't wait to see you winning Circuit with a Charizard; Serpi beware!
i support Meta4International in their struggle against the smogon elitists who pretend they're so much better than they actually are. go forth and reveal the next big metagame innovation
pull up and win a seasonal/cup with Zard winning a game in semis or finals and i’ll give you $100
It's on. I'll run Zard every match.
Getting off the topic of Charizard though...
Golem is also criminally under-rated, with how it isn't OU, or correlated with Rhydons relative stature as A/B ranking. Golem is atleast B, for what it can do is relative to what Rhydon does, unless it's not doing the same exact functional purposes, I don't know how the disparity exists between the two of them.
Golem is also criminally under-rated, with how it isn't OU, or correlated with Rhydons relative stature as A/B ranking. Golem is atleast B, for what it can do is relative to what Rhydon does, unless it's not doing the same exact functional purposes, I don't know how the disparity exists between the two of them.
Rhydon Earthquake vs. Chansey: 354-417 (50.3 - 59.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Golem Earthquake vs. Chansey: 314-370 (44.6 - 52.6%) -- 22.7% chance to 2HKO
Rhydon Earthquake vs. Snorlax: 169-199 (32.3 - 38%) -- 97.1% chance to 3HKO
Golem Earthquake vs. Snorlax: 150-177 (28.6 - 33.8%) -- 0.5% chance to 3HKO
Rhydon and Golem are functionally the same thing, in a battle most of the time chip damage is relevant, which negates the difference of damage outputs between the two. Defensively they both block hyper beam and self destruct about the same, Golems explosion is why Chansey (or snorlax) might not even want to stay in vs it. The difference between the two shouldn't be enough for one or the other not to be OU.
So I disagree with the chip argument for 2 reasons. First is that Rest and Softboiled mean that the 3hko/2hko is relevant regardless of chip since it means the Normal types can feasibly stall against Golem. They might not be doing much to retaliate, but mostly surviving is very different from straight up dying, which is what they face with Don.
The second issue with the chip damage argument is that it cuts both ways. Just as chip damage might invalidate the difference in KO potential, Rhydon's additional power can just as easily mean the difference between a teammate having a guaranteed KO, or needing an exceptionally lucky roll to KO
Snorlax Self-Destruct vs. Golem: 125-148 (34.4 - 40.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Tauros Blizzard vs. Golem: 199-234 (54.8 - 64.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Snorlax Self-Destruct vs. Rhydon: 131-155 (31.7 - 37.5%) -- 91% chance to 3HKO
Tauros Blizzard vs. Rhydon: 219-258 (53 - 62.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Actually golem isnt that good at tanking the mighty self destruct from a theorical standpoint (yea the roll still favor golem surviving but you get the point), sure you can switch but you may not be able too while rhydon could get another hit going and its the same for hyperbeam punish, Rhydon EQ punish tauros way better than golem does (relative to ur own tauros)
While i agree that that golem seems low tier wise, it dosent mean much in the context of OU, its more about that golem dosent fit standard structures as well as rhydon does: yes explosion makes securing some games easier but you need to be ahead and rhydon is good enough to secure theses games already while its also able to pull off comebacks thanks to having set ups options.
Having boom on it kinda defeat the purpose of why you want to bring a rockground in the first place (altho i get that zapdos shouldnt be the main reason you bring golem or rhydon) so its all about explosion and still golem dosent find a place in what i consider good boomspam teams: dosent offer enough support early on unlike gengar eggy and cloyster who already cover on of the main golem selling point: pivoting on snorlax bodyslam without getting ruined by paralysis (like rhydon) but you're even more pressured to explode if the 30% happens, not great. Notice how Gengar Eggy and Cloyster already struggles with starmie (esp lead) and golem push this issue even further.
Boom targets is also unclear, some teams wants to remove starmie by using golem but you have to get around eggy and there just not enough time for that and if you think about it exeggutor itself also booms this two while offering much more on the table like status and a very very good typing
I have hope for this pokemon, at least from a theorical standpoint but so far its worst than the competition practical wise (rhydon does more,others explosion users do more) and especially builder wise:it dosent seem to fit any formula but maybe we just hasnt found it yet
Sidenote: make sure you log on ur main account if you want to give more weight to ur thoughts ;) otherwise you are in for a rooster (see what i did here ?) oh also charizard is bad and venusaur is the best starter
Tauros Blizzard vs. Golem: 199-234 (54.8 - 64.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Snorlax Self-Destruct vs. Rhydon: 131-155 (31.7 - 37.5%) -- 91% chance to 3HKO
Tauros Blizzard vs. Rhydon: 219-258 (53 - 62.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Actually golem isnt that good at tanking the mighty self destruct from a theorical standpoint (yea the roll still favor golem surviving but you get the point), sure you can switch but you may not be able too while rhydon could get another hit going and its the same for hyperbeam punish, Rhydon EQ punish tauros way better than golem does (relative to ur own tauros)
While i agree that that golem seems low tier wise, it dosent mean much in the context of OU, its more about that golem dosent fit standard structures as well as rhydon does: yes explosion makes securing some games easier but you need to be ahead and rhydon is good enough to secure theses games already while its also able to pull off comebacks thanks to having set ups options.
Having boom on it kinda defeat the purpose of why you want to bring a rockground in the first place (altho i get that zapdos shouldnt be the main reason you bring golem or rhydon) so its all about explosion and still golem dosent find a place in what i consider good boomspam teams: dosent offer enough support early on unlike gengar eggy and cloyster who already cover on of the main golem selling point: pivoting on snorlax bodyslam without getting ruined by paralysis (like rhydon) but you're even more pressured to explode if the 30% happens, not great. Notice how Gengar Eggy and Cloyster already struggles with starmie (esp lead) and golem push this issue even further.
Boom targets is also unclear, some teams wants to remove starmie by using golem but you have to get around eggy and there just not enough time for that and if you think about it exeggutor itself also booms this two while offering much more on the table like status and a very very good typing
I have hope for this pokemon, at least from a theorical standpoint but so far its worst than the competition practical wise (rhydon does more,others explosion users do more) and especially builder wise:it dosent seem to fit any formula but maybe we just hasnt found it yet
Sidenote: make sure you log on ur main account if you want to give more weight to ur thoughts ;) otherwise you are in for a rooster (see what i did here ?) oh also charizard is bad and venusaur is the best starter
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Hi,
Isn't it weird that Gyarados doesn't get stopped by Cloyster and Snorlax, but Tauros does? Does dis mean anything? I confuse.
Isn't it weird that Gyarados doesn't get stopped by Cloyster and Snorlax, but Tauros does? Does dis mean anything? I confuse.
Melanie goes boating
formerly Kale EO Trixiewagon
It means Gyarados is an A+ rank God and Tauros is a C- RU unmon, clearly. Do not let the opposition deceive you about Gyarados and Chorizord's unviability.
if it gets paralyzed by lax its over. and it doest like switching on blizzard cloy lol
Can you split the cash if you ghost him to victory
Melanie goes boating
formerly Kale EO Trixiewagon
Arcanine
Ability: No Ability
- Fire Blast
- Body Slam
- Reflect
- Rest
Speaking of severely viable and powerful fire types, this guy is extremely powerful. If you dodge Sleep Powder from Eggy on the switch you threaten a powerful hit and a burn, and you can Rest stall non Stoss Chansey if you dodge FRZs and crits... And Reflect lets you larp as a threat to Lax and Tauros... And Body Slam will paralyze Starmie once every 7 matches!
Ability: No Ability
- Fire Blast
- Body Slam
- Reflect
- Rest
Speaking of severely viable and powerful fire types, this guy is extremely powerful. If you dodge Sleep Powder from Eggy on the switch you threaten a powerful hit and a burn, and you can Rest stall non Stoss Chansey if you dodge FRZs and crits... And Reflect lets you larp as a threat to Lax and Tauros... And Body Slam will paralyze Starmie once every 7 matches!
Arcanine is weak to Earthquake, while Charizard is immune to it, you can't reflect arcanine reliably at all without being worse off, Charizards movepool is able to to be a threat to most of OU, with EQ, Submission, and SD, I don't think the two are in the same tier. Arcanine isn't as good at offense for its movepool, and defense for the fact of flying typings ground immunity.
There's a reason why Charizard is consistently near Victreebell and D-Nite in terms of usage, both of which are OU. last month zard was at 2.8% usage compared to Victreebell at 3% ad Dnite at 3.8%. Charizard should be tiered near them more.
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The ice weakness is arguably more impactful than the ground weakness, though.
If you wanna use a non-moltres Fire-type in OU for whatever reason use Flareon. Its offensive stats are high enough to actually have a decent damage output and it’s biggest weakness (low speed) isn’t that bad in OU context since it’s still faster than the Exeggutor speed tier.
If you wanna use a non-moltres Fire-type in OU for whatever reason use Flareon. Its offensive stats are high enough to actually have a decent damage output and it’s biggest weakness (low speed) isn’t that bad in OU context since it’s still faster than the Exeggutor speed tier.