It doesn't just give the move -5 priority?
(-6 + 1 = -5)
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Metagame Fortemons
- Thread starter ponchlake
- Start date
(-6 + 1 = -5)
Moves that cannot be called by Copycat now have a flag, so if the Copycat user is holding Circle Throw, it cannot copy any move that it used, including those copied by Copycat. Having to rely on the opponent using a move between uses of Copycat makes it manageable.
The idea is that Copycat doesn't have negative priority since status moves are unaffected by the forte, but still phazes the opponent out since it calls a damaging move.
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Azumarill @ drainingkiss Ability: Huge Power
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 240 HP / 252 Atk / 16 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Belly Drum
- Play Rough
- Liquidation
- Aqua Jet
if your opponent isnt a terrain team and you get 1 turn to set up with this you kinda just win instantly, this mon is not ok
like come on, this happened and i ended the turn on 73% hp, and that liquidation OHKO'd through reflect after a parting shot.
View attachment 590206
Skarmory @ bodypress
Ability: Sturdy
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe
Impish Nature
- Roar
- Roost
- Brave Bird
- Flash Cannon
skarmory got bored of being a wall and decided to become a wallbreaker too
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If you're running BP and coverage might as well run Iron Defense over phazing for proper breaking.
Ability: Huge Power
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 240 HP / 252 Atk / 16 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Belly Drum
- Play Rough
- Liquidation
- Aqua Jet
if your opponent isnt a terrain team and you get 1 turn to set up with this you kinda just win instantly, this mon is not ok
like come on, this happened and i ended the turn on 73% hp, and that liquidation OHKO'd through reflect after a parting shot.
View attachment 590206
Skarmory @ bodypress
Ability: Sturdy
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe
Impish Nature
- Roar
- Roost
- Brave Bird
- Flash Cannon
skarmory got bored of being a wall and decided to become a wallbreaker too
Darkrai @ chargebeam
Ability: Bad Dreams
Tera Type: Dark
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Dark Pulse
- Ice Beam
- Psychic
- Sludge Bomb
I haven’t seen this set yet and it’s stupid good
Araquanid @ trailblaze
Ability: Water Bubble
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 Atk / 6 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Liquidation
- Leech Life
- Crunch
- Poison Jab
And here is a more fun set
Ability: Bad Dreams
Tera Type: Dark
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Dark Pulse
- Ice Beam
- Psychic
- Sludge Bomb
I haven’t seen this set yet and it’s stupid good
Araquanid @ trailblaze
Ability: Water Bubble
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 Atk / 6 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Liquidation
- Leech Life
- Crunch
- Poison Jab
And here is a more fun set
the set was in the middle of being modified to become a bit more of a breaker, it was Roar/Roost/Brave Bird/Spikes before.
Your iron crown's forte is most likely a soundmove, and throat chop prevents you from using soundmoves. I'd assume it is psychic noise, which i assume is sound. all your moves are now sound-based, meaning you couldn't attack. Hope this helps.
Moves that WERE used with an uncopycattable forte cannot be copycatted, meaning you cannot copycat your own moves after phazing the opponent
However what you can do is copycat a previously-used move that didn't have the circle throw forte and then you'll get circle throw's effect at +1 priority. The main ways to do this are to either sack something, using a switch move to get Riolu in, or using Protect/Substitute with Riolu to then Copycat whatever they hit you with
Riolu used to be banned because copycat callability was unaffected by fortes, meaning it could just copycat its own moves and stone your whole team
That being said, Riolu isn't actually good anymore (probably), though it's hella fun to use, especially on ladder since ppl dont know that they can go hard samh and be fine barring a CC prediction
Darkrai is very common, but yes it is ridiculously annoying to face.
Lati@s loses to Iron Valiant, Iron Valiant loses to Darkrai, and Darkrai loses to Lokix or when it uses Focus Miss.
This speed chain of special attackers is very annoying.
Why is uturn allowed but volt switch and flip turn aren’t? why cant we just ban them all since theyre all annoying as all hell?
ponchlake
cult of personality cult leader
We have a massive banslate for you all following the survey (which is still open for another day) that 60 of you have done. We believe we've gathered enough votes to get a consensus, so here are the results..
Iron Treads, Zamazenta-Crowned, Terapagos, Azumarill, Greninja and Light Clay are banned. Regieleki is unbanned. Future Sight, Doom Desire, Gyro Ball, and Elecro Ball are restricted from Fortemons.
With Tera and Electro Ball banned, we no longer see this as the threat it once was, so we believe it should be allowed a second chance in the tier. That said we will keep an immediate eye on it, as Rapid Spin Forte + Electro Ball means you could very easily lose to late game Electro Ball if you lack Grounds or priority.
This was one of the best wallbreakers in the tier without any real good switch-ins. Your only real hope was just trying to kill it before it killed you, primarily through Special Attackers. I find that argument to be quite awful and not entirely reliable. This likely does open up the room for other BPress mons given Iron Treads shredded its other BPress users. Rapid Spin meant it was gonna outspeed your whole team after a single use, and it doesn't always need the Iron Defense to sweep.
This thing is a box legendary that was too fast, too bulky, and too powerful for the tier. Only Dragapult or Gholdengo were reliable checks to it for the most part.
Tera Shell is a silly ability, but even without it Terrapagos was a massive threat due to it always boosting speed while boasting perfect offensive coverage with a good defensive profile. At +1 it could sweep entire teams far too easily.
Though there is more counterplay now than previously, this is the same Azumarill from the first time around. It does too much damage and heals too much. Belly Drum meant you lost on the spot unless you had Rillaboom or Thunder Clap.
Screens HO is one of the strongest archetypes right now in this tier with the tiers abundant set-up threats, and Light Clay was voted in the survey to be the preferred choice for a hit.
These two moves were the last remaining variable BP moves due to their limited uses and abusers, but we're banning them as we cannot future proof these moves but also the current abusers have been proven to be potent enough to warrant tiering action. Gyro Ball mons did far too much damage. Even if it required Trick Room, there was little you could do vs Avalugg once TR was up. Pawmot was less egregious, but we wanted to give Regieleki another shot, which meant banning Electro Ball.
U-Turn was the second most polarizing item on the survey besides everyone's absolute hatred for Terapagos. Either U-Turn got restricted or we'd go after abusers. U-Turn wasn't restricted, so we voted on Greninja and Lokix. Greninja is now banned for its combination of insane Speed and consequence free 150BP STAB Hyper Beam and Hydro Canno with Protean.
We'll release the survey results sometime tomorrow for everyone to look at. The results for Speed boosting Fortes were all over the place (I think I messed up with the OER part since a lot of you came up with really weird complex bans), so we'll have to discuss and come up with a decision for that at a later time.
EDIT: We're restricting Future Sight and Doom Desire since the whole immunity thing was not fixable.
Also due to us banning two of the tier's best hazard removers, we'll naturally be keeping a closer eye on the hazards meta (Samurott-H, Kleavor, Glimmora), as I don't think Regieleki alone will offset that. Plus Regieleki may just get itself banned again (who knows).
Kris poke
Iron Treads, Zamazenta-Crowned, Terapagos, Azumarill, Greninja and Light Clay are banned. Regieleki is unbanned. Future Sight, Doom Desire, Gyro Ball, and Elecro Ball are restricted from Fortemons.
| ponchlake | KaenSoul | Dark Koopatrol | Results: | |
| Serperior | Do Not Ban | Do Not Ban | Do Not Ban | Do Not Ban |
| Samurott-Hisui | Do Not Ban | Do Not Ban | Do Not Ban | Do Not Ban |
| Iron Treads | Ban | Ban | Do Not Ban | Ban |
| Iron Valiant | Ban | Do Not Ban | Do Not Ban | Do Not Ban |
| Zamazenta-Crowned | Ban | Ban | Do Not Ban | Ban |
| Ursaluna-Blood Moon | Do Not Ban | Do Not Ban | Ban | Do Not Ban |
| Terrapagos | Ban | Ban | Ban | Ban |
| Deoxys-Speed | Do Not Ban | Do Not Ban | Do Not Ban | Do Not Ban |
| Azumarill | Ban | Ban | Do Not Ban | Ban |
| Body Press | Do Not Ban | Do Not Ban | Do Not Ban | Do Not Ban |
| Gyro Ball | Restrict | Restrict | Restrict | Restrict |
| Electro Ball | Restrict | Restrict | Do Not Restrict | Restrict |
| Multi-Hits | Do Not Ban | Ban | Do Not Ban | Do Not Ban |
| Expanding Force | Do Not Ban | Do Not Ban | Do Not Ban | Do Not Ban |
| U-Turn | Ban | Do Not Ban | Do Not Ban | Do Not Ban |
| Light Clay | Ban | Ban | Do Not Ban | Ban |
| Regieleki | Unban | Unban | Unban | Unban |
| Lokix | Do Not Ban | Do Not Ban | Do Not Ban | Do Not Ban |
| Greninja | Ban | Ban | Do Not Ban | Ban |
| Future Sight/Doom Desire | Restrict | Restrict | Restrict | Restrict |
With Tera and Electro Ball banned, we no longer see this as the threat it once was, so we believe it should be allowed a second chance in the tier. That said we will keep an immediate eye on it, as Rapid Spin Forte + Electro Ball means you could very easily lose to late game Electro Ball if you lack Grounds or priority. This was one of the best wallbreakers in the tier without any real good switch-ins. Your only real hope was just trying to kill it before it killed you, primarily through Special Attackers. I find that argument to be quite awful and not entirely reliable. This likely does open up the room for other BPress mons given Iron Treads shredded its other BPress users. Rapid Spin meant it was gonna outspeed your whole team after a single use, and it doesn't always need the Iron Defense to sweep. This thing is a box legendary that was too fast, too bulky, and too powerful for the tier. Only Dragapult or Gholdengo were reliable checks to it for the most part. Tera Shell is a silly ability, but even without it Terrapagos was a massive threat due to it always boosting speed while boasting perfect offensive coverage with a good defensive profile. At +1 it could sweep entire teams far too easily. Though there is more counterplay now than previously, this is the same Azumarill from the first time around. It does too much damage and heals too much. Belly Drum meant you lost on the spot unless you had Rillaboom or Thunder Clap. Screens HO is one of the strongest archetypes right now in this tier with the tiers abundant set-up threats, and Light Clay was voted in the survey to be the preferred choice for a hit. These two moves were the last remaining variable BP moves due to their limited uses and abusers, but we're banning them as we cannot future proof these moves but also the current abusers have been proven to be potent enough to warrant tiering action. Gyro Ball mons did far too much damage. Even if it required Trick Room, there was little you could do vs Avalugg once TR was up. Pawmot was less egregious, but we wanted to give Regieleki another shot, which meant banning Electro Ball. U-Turn was the second most polarizing item on the survey besides everyone's absolute hatred for Terapagos. Either U-Turn got restricted or we'd go after abusers. U-Turn wasn't restricted, so we voted on Greninja and Lokix. Greninja is now banned for its combination of insane Speed and consequence free 150BP STAB Hyper Beam and Hydro Canno with Protean.We'll release the survey results sometime tomorrow for everyone to look at. The results for Speed boosting Fortes were all over the place (I think I messed up with the OER part since a lot of you came up with really weird complex bans), so we'll have to discuss and come up with a decision for that at a later time.
EDIT: We're restricting Future Sight and Doom Desire since the whole immunity thing was not fixable.
Also due to us banning two of the tier's best hazard removers, we'll naturally be keeping a closer eye on the hazards meta (Samurott-H, Kleavor, Glimmora), as I don't think Regieleki alone will offset that. Plus Regieleki may just get itself banned again (who knows).
Kris poke
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Mamoswine @ ancientpower
Ability: Thick Fat
Tera Type: Ice
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Icicle Spear
- Earthquake
- Ice Shard
- Roar
This is the best way to abuse Ancient Power I've found in any Other Metagame.
Ability: Thick Fat
Tera Type: Ice
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Icicle Spear
- Earthquake
- Ice Shard
- Roar
This is the best way to abuse Ancient Power I've found in any Other Metagame.
You can only have one of each forte per team, so I believe this is a way to limit you to only having one pivoting option instead of stacking u-turn+volt switch+flip turn
I would like to note that #1 says that Darkrai is banned when it is not.
i mean that does make a lot of sense, and im glad to see that gren was banned at least, but even then it doesn’t really feel legit when pult or lokix or anyone else with high speed/priority can just come in and just fuck shit up w its stab and face literally no other consequence than hazard chip
Lemme introduce you to the new A tier! thats right this cuddly boy can dish out some pain as a Body Presser Fairy Type with a Positive MU into alot of the A Tier threats to name a few Dragapult, Torkoal and Quaquaval all lose to this mon with the following Set!
Dachsbun @ bodypress
Ability: Well-Baked Body
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 252 HP / 60 Def / 196 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 SpA
- Draining Kiss
- Stomping Tantrum
- Roar
- Wish
This set focuses on supporting as most Bpressers don't do this is the one exception where it's a great typing with a solid ability into today's Metagame now some notable drawbacks for Dachs itself is it doesn't learn Iron Defense or Vice Versa which is why it's slotting in the defensive role, some notable partners for Dachsbun if you're going for Balanced Offense include Moltres (Fire Spin) to trap steels and deal with Rillaboom, Milotic (Dragon Tail) to sponge extra potent Special Hits Dachsbun wouldn't be comfortable taking. Anyways I genuinely think this mon is a blessing for Team Building and is a treat to use, go ahead and give it a shot!
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Not that anyone but me is actually trying this to my knowledge, but I've been having issues with liquid voice making my stored power water type with a sound move in the item slot. I tried it with both Psychic Noise and Sparkling Aria in the item slots and neither worked.
Thought I'd post it here in case someone can fix it or is also trying liquid voice. And yes I have the ability selected.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9fortemons-2031514513 (turn 14, psychic noise, ignore me saying alluring voice in the chat because i meant liquid voice)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9fortemons-2031517460 (last turn, it should be not very effective)
EDIT: The issue is with liquid voice, not passing the fact that a move is a sound move, as seen in the last turn here:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9fortemons-2032285712
Don't ask why I'm still trying with this set or team. I don't know either.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9fortemons-2031517460 (last turn, it should be not very effective)
EDIT: The issue is with liquid voice, not passing the fact that a move is a sound move, as seen in the last turn here:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9fortemons-2032285712
Don't ask why I'm still trying with this set or team. I don't know either.
Thought I'd post it here in case someone can fix it or is also trying liquid voice. And yes I have the ability selected.
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Baxcalibur @ Brick Break
Ability: Thermal Exchange
Tera Type: Dragon
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Ice Shard
- Glaive Rush
- Earthquake
Since I started having problems with Screens, I coocked this set.
And of course I stopped running into Screens/Aurora Veil, so I don't yet know if this is well cooked or raw, lmao.
Anyway, remember that Bax is a good mon most of the time.
Ability: Thermal Exchange
Tera Type: Dragon
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Ice Shard
- Glaive Rush
- Earthquake
Since I started having problems with Screens, I coocked this set.
And of course I stopped running into Screens/Aurora Veil, so I don't yet know if this is well cooked or raw, lmao.
Anyway, remember that Bax is a good mon most of the time.
I don't believe Lokix deserves to be categorized with the other U-Turn Pokemon since it is really the only physical U-Turn attacker, which means that it suffers from getting burned by Volcarona or Heatran. Furthermore, while the other U-Turn Pokemon can easily perform a late-game sweep by themselves due to their high speed, Lokix's relatively low speed forces it to rely on a defensive pivot in order to succeed. Lokix is also one of the few offensive Pokemon that check Darkrai. Since Lokix is a Bug, it is heavily punished by Kleavor and absolutely needs to be paired with a Rapid Spinner. In addition, numerous 4x resist Pokemon exist, such as Iron Moth, Iron Valiant, Heatran, and Corviknight, and bulky defensive pivots are much more versatile given how most Rapid Spinners are physical attackers. Meanwhile, specially defensive Pokemon usually lack an offensive pivot move that can take advantage of the move in the item slot.
252+ Atk Lokix First Impression vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Alomomola: 114-135 (21.3 - 25.2%) -- 0.1% chance to 4HKO
Personally I’d rather just run Loaded Dice since its generally far more useful, and relegate Brick Break to a Gambit’s forte or something (light clay’s getting banned anyway but eh)
yeah Lokix is absolutely fine in this meta, it's great at pivoting out safely but not being able to have choice band or tera bug while doing so really hurts it's damage
Toxapex @ Infestation Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpD / 8 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Recover
- Baneful Bunker
- Toxic
- Surf
i've been using this, it can trap a lot of things and deal with them for you, completely walls pecharunt, walls volcarona as long as it's not already +2 and running psychic or smth, and can be a passable valiant check in a pinch
Chilling Water is better if you aren't running Haze.
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpD / 8 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Recover
- Baneful Bunker
- Toxic
- Surf
i've been using this, it can trap a lot of things and deal with them for you, completely walls pecharunt, walls volcarona as long as it's not already +2 and running psychic or smth, and can be a passable valiant check in a pinch
Yes it does but it's banned in the item slot because it has a chance to freeze. But hurricane and thunder are allowed in the item slot and add the same affect if you want to use perfect accuracy in a different way