I don’t know what you’re talking about. You can order sets in order of overall viability without there being a one and done best set. Not having a definitive best set is not a reason to not order them in the analyses.
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Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v4 [Volcarona Banned]
- Thread starter TPP
- Start date
Talking about Rillaboom, I made this Sun support Sun abuser Rillaboom set before DLC2.While the former is beyond me since I am ofc not part of the council, please remember there is no cycle if there are no thread regulars yelling at new users in the first place! We can all do better here.
To move this into a new topic, what Tera types have you tried on Rillaboom other than Tera Grass? I feel Tera Electric could be okay, something like this for example
Rillaboom @ Life Orb
Ability: Grassy Surge
Tera Type: Electric
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Grassy Glide
- Tera Blast
- Drain Punch
Tera Blast Electric lets it hit Skarmory and Corviknight super effectively, with Tera Electric also improving its mu against Zapdos. Furthermore its weakness to Ground would get neutralized by Grassy Terrain. Could also let it bait in something like a Roaring Moon or Hawlucha trying to hit it with Acrobatics only for Rillaboom to tank and hit them with Tera Blast. Losing the raw power of Wood Hammer would kinda suck though.
Boom! Boom! (Rillaboom) @ Choice Band
Ability: Grassy Surge
Tera Type: Grass
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Solar Blade
- U-turn
- Grassy Glide
- High Horsepower
Choice Band gives Rillaboom powerful wallbreaking potential. In Sun, Solar Blade is a one turn move more powerful than Wood Hammer and with no drawback. U-Turn to pivot. Grassy Glide is priority in Grassy Terrain and provides strong revenge-killing with the Band boost. High Horsepower is coverage.
Generally when I do a post talking about an underrated poke, Its mostly just one. Why not do two?
Keep in mind I do not consider these to be hidden OU staples, they’re simply mons I feel have a relevant niche into the tier that should be considered an option when teambuilding. Spoilers, they’re both water types.
Volcanion
Volcanion last generation was a strong threat in OU that tore through defensive teams lacking Blissey or Johtoian Slowking. It used its defensive profile to check Weavile, Rain, Heatran, etc. Since it was re-introduced in Home, it was in an awkward spot, having some relevant qualities but never keeping up with the tier’s new power level. Volcanion’s only niche throughout Home and DLC1 was being a wallbreaker that answered rain.
In DLC2, a few things have changed that have benefitted Volcanion. Sun and Rain became more popular due to the new additions from the DLC lilke Archaludon and the dinos. The SV OU metagame has also slowed down. Spike stacking Balance teams. Weavile has regained T-Axel. More offensive waters like Primarina and Keldeo started to pop up with Wogre usage being in a new low for it. Switching into Specs Kyurem Ice Beam became a team building requisite. This was the prime opportunity for Volcanion to carve out a niche, with an unexpected twist, a fiery twist-er.
With Fire Spin + Taunt, Volcanion can act like Heatran, trapping and killing several bulky walls like Toxapex, Glowking, Mola, Prim, etc. With Tera, it can outright trap Washtom, Ting-Lu, Archaludon, and Clodsire. The 204 speed EVs let it outrun 0 speed Gliscor and punt it with Steam Eruption. Trapping these bulky threats leads the way for its teammates like Weavile, Dragapult, CM Clef, Raging Bolt, Gholdengo, and Zamazenta.
Outside of wallbreaking, its defensive profile and Water Absorb helps bulkier teams pivot around Kyurem’s Ice Beam, Walking Wake, Skeledirge, and rain. In matchups where Volc can’t trap or kill anything like teams with Dragapult, having that defensive profile and its raw dmg output means it is never deadweight. Since Volcanion naturally hits hard, you could forgo Fire Spin for Flamethrower to consistently OHKO Rillaboom and Weavile.
Even with minimal bulk investment, Volcanion can live some surprising hits at full like unboosted Boulder’s Mighty Cleave and +2 Weavile’s Knock Off.
If you wanna try it out yourself, I’ve built a team with it right here.
https://pokepast.es/358b949e3ec001a7
Empoleon
One of my favorite Water starters, Empoleon, was an OU staple in its debut generation. Due to power creep and competition with other bulky waters or steels, Empoleon fell off of OU, only ever accompanying a small niche in ORAS due to its unique defensive typing and access to Stealth Rock, Defog, and Scald. Scarlet and Violet brought promises to Empoleon. While it lost Scald and Defog, it gained Flip Turn and Roost, letting it act as a defensive pivot with reliable recovery. Its typing was appealing as it walled both of Walking Wake’s STAB. Due to how limited teambuilding was in DLC1, and the fact it didn’t really check much, Empoleon dropped to UU after a month of New Toy Syndrome putting it in OU, and its niche in the tier was small.
The meta of DLC2 has shifted from DLC1’s more offensive oriented meta to more bulky styles of teams. Some new and returning options like Gliscor, Volcarona, Skarm, Raging Bolt, and the T-Axel Cats have been fantastic options for these builds. Allowing them to cover holes in the builder and make progress. While the meta isn’t completely balanced, (Kyurem is a bitch ass mfer) but teambuilding is more flexible this time around. As a result of the metq trends, Pokemon like Wogre have fallen in favor. The meta now is Superman teams, or as the new kids say, Boots Spam, and these teams want Knock Off, they want a pivot, they want a bulky water, they want a steel type, they want a Kyurem check, Empoleon can fulfill all these roles at once in the team.
First things first, I don’t think Empoleon needs Stealth Rock. The tier is not short of rockers and Balance certainly has no trouble slotting in one. Instead, Empoleon should focus more on its other utility moves like Knock, Haze, Flip Turn, and Roar. What separates Empoleon from other bulky waters and bulky pivots like Rotom-Wash is its valuable Steel typing and access to Knock Off. Empoleon has an good matchup into the three main Knock absorbers, Clef, Skarm, and Gliscor. Non-CM Clef could lose the 1v1 if it clicks Moonblast and gets the SpA drop, activating Competitive, thus turning Surf into a guaranteed 3HKO. Surf 2HKOs Skarm and physically defensive Gliscor, while none of them can OHKO it. Thus Empoleon can click Knock Off almost freely and make progress.
Its typing and bulk allows it to be a soft check to NP Ghold, Specs Dragapult, Walking Wake, Latios, Volcarona, Hatterene, and most importantly, Kyurem. Being able to do these things and generate momentum with Flip Turn is valuable on bulky teams, joining the aiding Slowking-Galar and Meowscarada voltturn core. Pivots are great to have on any team, but they are especially important on balance teams who may often have issues with maintaining momentum. Empoleon synergizes well with Gliscor, Skarm, Ting-Lu, and Glowking, letting it naturally fit on Balance structures like Toxapex and Milotic while being less passive due to Knock Off and Flip Turn.
In case the team doesn’t need a pivot, Empoleon has two other options to play with like Haze to check Hatterene full-on and other setup sweepers while Roar has a similar function, but it can phaze out targets and rack up hazard damage. You could also swap Competitive for Torrent, since if Volc clicks Tera Ground Blast and does 77% to 91% of dmg, you can deal heavy damage with Flip Turn, thus putting it in range of priority.
If you’re eager to try out Empoleon Dynamite, I’ve built a team with it just like I did with Volcanion.
https://pokepast.es/e9ee70a0539a48c5
Keep in mind I do not consider these to be hidden OU staples, they’re simply mons I feel have a relevant niche into the tier that should be considered an option when teambuilding. Spoilers, they’re both water types.
Volcanion
Volcanion last generation was a strong threat in OU that tore through defensive teams lacking Blissey or Johtoian Slowking. It used its defensive profile to check Weavile, Rain, Heatran, etc. Since it was re-introduced in Home, it was in an awkward spot, having some relevant qualities but never keeping up with the tier’s new power level. Volcanion’s only niche throughout Home and DLC1 was being a wallbreaker that answered rain.
Volcanion’s Niche In The Indigo Disk Meta
In DLC2, a few things have changed that have benefitted Volcanion. Sun and Rain became more popular due to the new additions from the DLC lilke Archaludon and the dinos. The SV OU metagame has also slowed down. Spike stacking Balance teams. Weavile has regained T-Axel. More offensive waters like Primarina and Keldeo started to pop up with Wogre usage being in a new low for it. Switching into Specs Kyurem Ice Beam became a team building requisite. This was the prime opportunity for Volcanion to carve out a niche, with an unexpected twist, a fiery twist-er.
Volcanion @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Water Absorb
Tera Type: Ground
EVs: 52 HP / 252 SpA / 204 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Steam Eruption
- Earth Power
- Flamethrower/Fire Spin
- Taunt
Ability: Water Absorb
Tera Type: Ground
EVs: 52 HP / 252 SpA / 204 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Steam Eruption
- Earth Power
- Flamethrower/Fire Spin
- Taunt
With Fire Spin + Taunt, Volcanion can act like Heatran, trapping and killing several bulky walls like Toxapex, Glowking, Mola, Prim, etc. With Tera, it can outright trap Washtom, Ting-Lu, Archaludon, and Clodsire. The 204 speed EVs let it outrun 0 speed Gliscor and punt it with Steam Eruption. Trapping these bulky threats leads the way for its teammates like Weavile, Dragapult, CM Clef, Raging Bolt, Gholdengo, and Zamazenta.
Outside of wallbreaking, its defensive profile and Water Absorb helps bulkier teams pivot around Kyurem’s Ice Beam, Walking Wake, Skeledirge, and rain. In matchups where Volc can’t trap or kill anything like teams with Dragapult, having that defensive profile and its raw dmg output means it is never deadweight. Since Volcanion naturally hits hard, you could forgo Fire Spin for Flamethrower to consistently OHKO Rillaboom and Weavile.
Even with minimal bulk investment, Volcanion can live some surprising hits at full like unboosted Boulder’s Mighty Cleave and +2 Weavile’s Knock Off.
252 Atk Iron Boulder Mighty Cleave vs. 56 HP / 0 Def Volcanion: 254-300 (80.6 - 95.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252 Atk Weavile Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 56 HP / 0 Def Volcanion: 256-303 (81.2 - 96.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Secret Sword vs. 56 HP / 0 Def Volcanion: 178-210 (56.5 - 66.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 Atk Gliscor Earthquake vs. 56 HP / 0 Def Volcanion: 176-210 (55.8 - 66.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Tera Ice Kyurem Ice Beam vs. 56 HP / 0 SpD Volcanion: 80-95 (25.3 - 30.1%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
252+ SpA Volcanion Steam Eruption vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Tera Ice Kyurem: 214-253 (54.7 - 64.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 SpA Slowking-Galar Sludge Bomb vs. 56 HP / 0 SpD Volcanion: 115-136 (36.5 - 43.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ SpA Volcanion Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Dragapult: 136-161 (42.9 - 50.7%) -- 3.1% chance to 2HKO
0 Atk Ting-Lu Earthquake vs. 56 HP / 0 Def Volcanion: 200-236 (63.4 - 74.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Zamazenta Close Combat vs. 56 HP / 0 Def Volcanion: 159-187 (50.4 - 59.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252 Atk Weavile Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 56 HP / 0 Def Volcanion: 256-303 (81.2 - 96.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Secret Sword vs. 56 HP / 0 Def Volcanion: 178-210 (56.5 - 66.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 Atk Gliscor Earthquake vs. 56 HP / 0 Def Volcanion: 176-210 (55.8 - 66.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Tera Ice Kyurem Ice Beam vs. 56 HP / 0 SpD Volcanion: 80-95 (25.3 - 30.1%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
252+ SpA Volcanion Steam Eruption vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Tera Ice Kyurem: 214-253 (54.7 - 64.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 SpA Slowking-Galar Sludge Bomb vs. 56 HP / 0 SpD Volcanion: 115-136 (36.5 - 43.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ SpA Volcanion Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Dragapult: 136-161 (42.9 - 50.7%) -- 3.1% chance to 2HKO
0 Atk Ting-Lu Earthquake vs. 56 HP / 0 Def Volcanion: 200-236 (63.4 - 74.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Zamazenta Close Combat vs. 56 HP / 0 Def Volcanion: 159-187 (50.4 - 59.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
If you wanna try it out yourself, I’ve built a team with it right here.
https://pokepast.es/358b949e3ec001a7
Empoleon
Empoleon’s Niche In The Indigo Disk Meta
The meta of DLC2 has shifted from DLC1’s more offensive oriented meta to more bulky styles of teams. Some new and returning options like Gliscor, Volcarona, Skarm, Raging Bolt, and the T-Axel Cats have been fantastic options for these builds. Allowing them to cover holes in the builder and make progress. While the meta isn’t completely balanced, (Kyurem is a bitch ass mfer) but teambuilding is more flexible this time around. As a result of the metq trends, Pokemon like Wogre have fallen in favor. The meta now is Superman teams, or as the new kids say, Boots Spam, and these teams want Knock Off, they want a pivot, they want a bulky water, they want a steel type, they want a Kyurem check, Empoleon can fulfill all these roles at once in the team.
Empoleon @ Heavy-Duty Boots/Leftovers
Ability: Torrent/Competitive
Tera Type: Electric/Flying
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Sassy/Calm Nature
- Surf
- Knock Off
- Roost
- Flip Turn/Haze/Roar
Ability: Torrent/Competitive
Tera Type: Electric/Flying
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Sassy/Calm Nature
- Surf
- Knock Off
- Roost
- Flip Turn/Haze/Roar
First things first, I don’t think Empoleon needs Stealth Rock. The tier is not short of rockers and Balance certainly has no trouble slotting in one. Instead, Empoleon should focus more on its other utility moves like Knock, Haze, Flip Turn, and Roar. What separates Empoleon from other bulky waters and bulky pivots like Rotom-Wash is its valuable Steel typing and access to Knock Off. Empoleon has an good matchup into the three main Knock absorbers, Clef, Skarm, and Gliscor. Non-CM Clef could lose the 1v1 if it clicks Moonblast and gets the SpA drop, activating Competitive, thus turning Surf into a guaranteed 3HKO. Surf 2HKOs Skarm and physically defensive Gliscor, while none of them can OHKO it. Thus Empoleon can click Knock Off almost freely and make progress.
Its typing and bulk allows it to be a soft check to NP Ghold, Specs Dragapult, Walking Wake, Latios, Volcarona, Hatterene, and most importantly, Kyurem. Being able to do these things and generate momentum with Flip Turn is valuable on bulky teams, joining the aiding Slowking-Galar and Meowscarada voltturn core. Pivots are great to have on any team, but they are especially important on balance teams who may often have issues with maintaining momentum. Empoleon synergizes well with Gliscor, Skarm, Ting-Lu, and Glowking, letting it naturally fit on Balance structures like Toxapex and Milotic while being less passive due to Knock Off and Flip Turn.
In case the team doesn’t need a pivot, Empoleon has two other options to play with like Haze to check Hatterene full-on and other setup sweepers while Roar has a similar function, but it can phaze out targets and rack up hazard damage. You could also swap Competitive for Torrent, since if Volc clicks Tera Ground Blast and does 77% to 91% of dmg, you can deal heavy damage with Flip Turn, thus putting it in range of priority.
0 SpA Empoleon Surf vs. 160 HP / 0 SpD Skarmory: 142-168 (45.6 - 54%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Def Skarmory Body Press vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Empoleon: 226-266 (60.7 - 71.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 SpA Empoleon Surf vs. 244 HP / 12 SpD Gliscor: 266-314 (75.5 - 89.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Poison Heal
0 Atk Gliscor Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Empoleon: 230-272 (61.8 - 73.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
+1 0 SpA Empoleon Surf vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Clefable: 172-204 (43.6 - 51.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252 SpA Gholdengo Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Empoleon: 190-225 (51 - 60.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Gholdengo Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Empoleon: 96-114 (25.8 - 30.6%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Kyurem Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Empoleon: 39-46 (10.4 - 12.3%) -- possible 9HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Kyurem Freeze-Dry vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Empoleon: 123-145 (33 - 38.9%) -- 99.8% chance to 3HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Kyurem Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Empoleon: 210-248 (56.4 - 66.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Kyurem Freeze-Dry vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Empoleon: 82-97 (22 - 26%) -- 6% chance to 4HKO (after Knock)
252 SpA Kyurem Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Empoleon: 140-166 (37.6 - 44.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO (after Knock)
244 SpA Choice Specs Walking Wake Hydro Steam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Empoleon in Sun: 102-120 (27.4 - 32.2%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
244 SpA Choice Specs Tera Water Walking Wake Hydro Steam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Empoleon in Sun: 136-160 (36.5 - 43%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
244 SpA Tera Water Walking Wake Hydro Steam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Empoleon in Sun: 91-108 (24.4 - 29%) -- 99.7% chance to 4HKO (after Knock)
0 Atk Empoleon Flip Turn vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Volcarona: 164-194 (52.7 - 62.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 252 SpA Tera Ground Volcarona Tera Blast (80 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Empoleon: 288-342 (77.4 - 91.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 Atk Torrent Empoleon Flip Turn vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tera Ground Volcarona: 242-288 (77.8 - 92.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Def Skarmory Body Press vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Empoleon: 226-266 (60.7 - 71.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 SpA Empoleon Surf vs. 244 HP / 12 SpD Gliscor: 266-314 (75.5 - 89.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Poison Heal
0 Atk Gliscor Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Empoleon: 230-272 (61.8 - 73.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
+1 0 SpA Empoleon Surf vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Clefable: 172-204 (43.6 - 51.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252 SpA Gholdengo Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Empoleon: 190-225 (51 - 60.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Gholdengo Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Empoleon: 96-114 (25.8 - 30.6%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Kyurem Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Empoleon: 39-46 (10.4 - 12.3%) -- possible 9HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Kyurem Freeze-Dry vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Empoleon: 123-145 (33 - 38.9%) -- 99.8% chance to 3HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Kyurem Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Empoleon: 210-248 (56.4 - 66.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Kyurem Freeze-Dry vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Empoleon: 82-97 (22 - 26%) -- 6% chance to 4HKO (after Knock)
252 SpA Kyurem Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Empoleon: 140-166 (37.6 - 44.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO (after Knock)
244 SpA Choice Specs Walking Wake Hydro Steam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Empoleon in Sun: 102-120 (27.4 - 32.2%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
244 SpA Choice Specs Tera Water Walking Wake Hydro Steam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Empoleon in Sun: 136-160 (36.5 - 43%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
244 SpA Tera Water Walking Wake Hydro Steam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Empoleon in Sun: 91-108 (24.4 - 29%) -- 99.7% chance to 4HKO (after Knock)
0 Atk Empoleon Flip Turn vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Volcarona: 164-194 (52.7 - 62.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 252 SpA Tera Ground Volcarona Tera Blast (80 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Empoleon: 288-342 (77.4 - 91.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 Atk Torrent Empoleon Flip Turn vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tera Ground Volcarona: 242-288 (77.8 - 92.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
If you’re eager to try out Empoleon Dynamite, I’ve built a team with it just like I did with Volcanion.
https://pokepast.es/e9ee70a0539a48c5
I've been using volcanion with an assault vest tera fairy on a rain team. It absolutely stuffs other rain threats if I get a mirror match, is great against sun teams and it can completely wall walking wake when tera'd. Plus, with great coverage, it can threaten a lot of mons. Volcanion is definetely underrated, but it has been every single generation, so this is no different.
OU council please consider, unbanning Necrozma DW and Kyurem-White and OU suspect testing them.....its perfectly reasonable.... especially since we have Deoxys Speed running around the tier....plz
Kyurem White maybe (like absolutely not but I can see a universe where it's fine), Dawn Wings absolutely fucking not. Deo-S is also very banworthy! It hits too hard for something with that much utility and a speed tier as absurd as that! You're insane and you've been here since 2012.
Its not insanity .....we have Roaring Moon Tera flying acrobatics back in OU now which is worse than Necrozma DW(its speed is like one of the worst amongst all Uber pokes).....Deo speed not ban worthy with all the counters in the tier.......at least you seem to half agree on Kyurem W though.
*facepalms into desk so hard that it breaks the desk because people keep fucking asking for uber drops*
Roaring Moon needs to go too. We need to get rid of the ubers not add more into the tier for no reason.
Ok let's set the record straight
Has 57% chance to flinch you every time it clicks Air Slash so long as is able to flinch you. Not only that but Seed Flare has 68% chance to suddenly drop your SpD. If you don't outspeed it, it'll be hax for you to do anything against it. If you do outspeed it, you'll be lucky to switch into its attacks or catch it before it subs.
Has massive Ting-Lu bulk even without multiscale and has recovery, set up moves, and it way faster. It'll set up multiple boosts in front of you then sweep afterwards.
Almost same physical bulk as Great Tusk with far better SpD and plenty diverse sets. It can do way too much to account for and of course has insane bulk with set up moves and usable offenses on both sides.
157 SpA with high BP Ghost STAB with solid bulk, coverage, set up moves, and even recovery.
Hits even harder than Zacian-Crown currently can with Tera, which doesn't go away when it switches out, and is decent in every other area. Even without Tera, it's a Fire type with strong Fire type move that will ignore Flash Fire, then has Grass STAB for Water and Rock types.
Pokemon like
and 
are no where near the same level of brokenness as these Pokemon mentioned. Their positives are not remotely as great as these positives while also having plenty more negatives.
Please STOP ASKING FOR UBER DROPS just because Darkrai and Zamazenta dropped.
Has 57% chance to flinch you every time it clicks Air Slash so long as is able to flinch you. Not only that but Seed Flare has 68% chance to suddenly drop your SpD. If you don't outspeed it, it'll be hax for you to do anything against it. If you do outspeed it, you'll be lucky to switch into its attacks or catch it before it subs.
Has massive Ting-Lu bulk even without multiscale and has recovery, set up moves, and it way faster. It'll set up multiple boosts in front of you then sweep afterwards.
Almost same physical bulk as Great Tusk with far better SpD and plenty diverse sets. It can do way too much to account for and of course has insane bulk with set up moves and usable offenses on both sides.
157 SpA with high BP Ghost STAB with solid bulk, coverage, set up moves, and even recovery.
Hits even harder than Zacian-Crown currently can with Tera, which doesn't go away when it switches out, and is decent in every other area. Even without Tera, it's a Fire type with strong Fire type move that will ignore Flash Fire, then has Grass STAB for Water and Rock types.
Pokemon like
and are no where near the same level of brokenness as these Pokemon mentioned. Their positives are not remotely as great as these positives while also having plenty more negatives.Please STOP ASKING FOR UBER DROPS just because Darkrai and Zamazenta dropped.
no, no, don't you get it, the way to improve a slightly unhealthy but mostly balanced tier is to introduce unambiguously broken pokemon into it. you know, it's like how doctors cure colds by injecting the patients with bubonic plague
honestly i'm starting to think even unbanning darkrai and zamazenta was a mistake. they're good additions to the meta, but it opened the floodgates to this discussionOk let's set the record straight
Has 57% chance to flinch you every time it clicks Air Slash so long as is able to flinch you. Not only that but Seed Flare has 68% chance to suddenly drop your SpD. If you don't outspeed it, it'll be hax for you to do anything against it. If you do outspeed it, you'll be lucky to switch into its attacks or catch it before it subs.
Has massive Ting-Lu bulk even without multiscale and has recovery, set up moves, and it way faster. It'll set up multiple boosts in front of you then sweep afterwards.
Almost same physical bulk as Great Tusk with far better SpD and plenty diverse sets. It can do way too much to account for and of course has insane bulk with set up moves and usable offenses on both sides.
157 SpA with high BP Ghost STAB with solid bulk, coverage, set up moves, and even recovery.
Hits even harder than Zacian-Crown currently can with Tera, which doesn't go away when it switches out, and is decent in every other area. Even without Tera, it's a Fire type with strong Fire type move that will ignore Flash Fire, then has Grass STAB for Water and Rock types.
Pokemon like
Please STOP ASKING FOR UBER DROPS just because Darkrai and Zamazenta dropped.
The highest bst we have got in OU that isn't regigigas or slaking is zamazenta, with 660 bst. The only ones that are lower are skymin or ogerpon, with 600 bst. I'm not saying that we should unban these monsters, but people don't realise that 700 bst is insane, we don't unban something with that much of a stat check. Besides, darkrai and Deoxys-S are only 600, they are nowhere close to the drops that are being presented as "alright" by people. If people want to play the "we have x mon, y mon is similar" card, I'll play that game, just look at the stats and tell me the 40-100 stat points extra are not a major factor.
Can we please maybe get OU council to make a pinned thread that clearly states "Stop asking for Ubers drops into OU" so that maybe people will see it before clicking on the this thread and stop asking for Ubers to drop into OU. It's getting ridiculous how it seems like every single page has someone again asking for such and such Uber to drop. I think DaddyBuzzwole had it right that allowing Zamazenta and Darkrai to drop was a mistake due to it opening the floodgates even though those 2 mons seem to be working out and balanced in the tier currently.
What do y'all like running on your ScarfKrais? I think Dark Pulse / Psychic / Sludge Bomb / Trick is the way to go, as Psychic gives Darkrai a healthy shot at revenging a weakened Iron Boulder should it choose to Tera Fighting and take nothing from Dark Pulse. Though the fact that Iron Boulder takes around 69% at most from it is a little scary to think about.
KamenOH
formerly DynamaxBestMeta
What ubers? The only new ubers I could possibly see are Kyurem. Even then, the icicle either has to waste the tera to get rid of a check, or get wasted by said check. Valiant and Gholdengo, for example, do well against them, while also not being super omega busted themselves.
This is hilarious lmfao mfers will just go back and forth on this bullshit ad infinitum can any mod please blacklist uber drops until the next survey brings it up my god.
Checks and counters to Specs and Dragon Dance don't overlap, it has surprisingly decent defensive value thanks to its Dragon Typing and monstrous HP, becomes incredibly difficult to take out or wall after using Tera.
I have the strange feeling that people these days have attention spans lower than fruit flies. TikTok rotted alot of people’s brains. They get bored so easily if you don’t jingle the subway surfer/skibidi toilet pipeline keys at them, or the OU version of it, dropping a broken uber for the sake of dropping a broken uber.
I know it can be appealing to see how the meta would look if X dropped into the tier, its fine to theorycraft, but asking them to drop an uber without any convincing arguments or reasons does nothing but clog a page or 2 of the forums. We have a fresh new meta with seven unbanned Ubers.
The older gen metas rarely shift, and when they do, its very slow, even when new meta developments arise. Yet we see alot less arguments to drop random Ubers into OU with exceptions like DPP Latias and BW Excadrill, because people are content with the metas as is.
Let’s focus on what we have, the DLC2 meta is barely even a month old and is most likely gonna shift within a month or two.
KamenOH
formerly DynamaxBestMeta
Ok? Who gives a shit if you cant pack one team that has answers for everything? It's ridiculous that we've devolved to this point, where something's broken if you cant immediately stop it no matter what its running. You bring one or two checks, which overlap with other good parts of your team, and then when they bring something you didn't expect, suddenly its on the mon. Perhaps you and I simply have different measures on whats broken, but just because its somewhat difficult doesnt mean it cant be handled, much less that its invincible.
Can you give a set of moves to base this off of?
This. This right here. You don't do this. No. This bad. Legit if you open up with something like this, chances are you probably have no clue what you're talking about and instead of further proving your point, you're only coming off as a Grade A jerk.
Anyways, my point here is that Kyurem can / is potentially straining the team builder when you need to plan for it. Guess incorrectly and you're either losing the game on the spot or something is dying, which isn't particularly swell when the odds are stacked in Kyurem's favor.
Dragon (Dragonite) @ Expert Belt
Ability: Multiscale
Tera Type: Normal
EVs: 252 HP / 64 Atk / 192 SpA
Brave Nature
- Earthquake
- Thunder
- Hurricane
- Extreme Speed
KamenOH
formerly DynamaxBestMeta
I dont exactly see the problem here. You made your team to (not specifically) deal with one variant of Kyurem, and you got caught by the other main variant. It's a strong opponent, but it has its answers and they aren't particularly niche. No big deal, in the long run. You're bound to fight another Kyurem.
Its like different play styles. You make a team that, by its nature, is kinda weak to stall but very strong against HO or whatever. Youre gonna win some, and youre gonna lose some. That's how different match ups work.
ngl this is gonna be tough one.
Firstly, I'd recommend like neutral speed nature. You get 176 Spe with Brave, which puts you even below uninvested Raging Bolt and speed ties uninvested Skarmory. At least give it 16 EVs so you outspeed Kingambit with neutral nature. That way you can Earthquake Kingambit while it hits you with a non-priority and can't flinch hax you with Iron Head.
Next I recommend 96 SpA. That is the minimum SpA required to guarantee an OHKO against max HP Great Tusk.
96 SpA Tera Normal Dragonite Hurricane vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Great Tusk: 434-512 (100 - 117.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
And then in order to guarantee you can 2HKO Lead Deoxys-S with Earthquake -> Extreme Speed without Tera, you need exactly max Atk.
252+ Atk Dragonite Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Deoxys-Speed: 134-158 (55.6 - 65.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and 1 layer of Spikes
Possible damage amounts: (134, 135, 137, 139, 140, 142, 143, 145, 146, 148, 150, 151, 153, 154, 156, 158)
252+ Atk Dragonite Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Deoxys-Speed: 107-127 (44.3 - 52.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and 1 layer of Spikes
Possible damage amounts: (107, 109, 110, 111, 113, 114, 115, 116, 118, 119, 120, 121, 123, 124, 125, 127)
134 + 107 = 241 or the HP Deoxys-S will have without investment.
You can invest 108 Spd to offset the minus nature making it 236 as if you didn't have a negative nature there.
Rest of the EVs going into HP just before a number divisible by 4 to minimize Stealth Rock damage, and then the last EV remaining going into Def.
End result looking like this.
Dragonite (F) @ Expert Belt
Ability: Multiscale
Tera Type: Normal
EVs: 32 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def / 96 SpA / 108 SpD / 16 Spe
Naughty Nature
- Earthquake
- Hurricane
- Thunder
- Extreme Speed
This is the most optimal EV spread I could come up with tbh and this just goes to show that optimal =/= viable.
Sorry to say this set is pretty awful. You need TONS of support for this to even function, from Rain to great hazard removal to making sure you can beat other walls you can't otherwise muscle through with how split you need to make the EVs.