Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v4 [Volcarona Banned]

About that team, what is going on with those EVs?
most of the evs are normal but ampharos' evs are the recommended set in PU. I tried fiddling with them a bit but there's not really any relevant calcs you can achieve without serious other investment, so I didn't fix what wasn't broken.
kyurem not that bad tbh
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bronzong can do the job however zone needs a “niche” so it doesn’t fall to nu
so called "gambit check" when
+2 252+ Atk Supreme Overlord 5 allies fainted Kingambit Sucker Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Magnezone: 343-405 (99.7 - 117.7%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO
and
0 Def Magnezone Body Press vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Kingambit: 224-264 (65.6 - 77.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
You have to make PERFECT predictions to get out of the interaction alive.
"I'm not locked in here with you. You're locked in here with me!"
 
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0 Def Magnezone Body Press vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Kingambit: 224-264 (65.6 - 77.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
You have to make PERFECT predictions to get out of the interaction alive.
"I'm not locked in here with you. You're locked in here with me!"
Magnezone can check Kingambit. That set is just not optimal. Need max defense & speed. You can ID in front of Kingambit if needed, then kill it. Bigger issue is Magnezone just isn’t very good right now overall. Fun to use with Dragon Dancers though!
 
most of the evs are normal but ampharos' evs are the recommended set in PU. I tried fiddling with them a bit but there's not really any relevant calcs you can achieve without serious other investment, so I didn't fix what wasn't broken.

so called "gambit check" when
+2 252+ Atk Supreme Overlord 5 allies fainted Kingambit Sucker Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Magnezone: 343-405 (99.7 - 117.7%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO
and
0 Def Magnezone Body Press vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Kingambit: 224-264 (65.6 - 77.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
You have to make PERFECT predictions to get out of the interaction alive.
"I'm not locked in here with you. You're locked in here with me!"
Have you checked the paste? https://pokepast.es/6bb4d20ae48ee23b

Most of the EV spread isn’t divisible by 4 and some Mons have too many EVs.
 
Looking at this team makes me feel like I’m going to be stalked by a ghost this week or I’m now on FBI watchlist.
No, the FBI is simply getting some first impressions from you.
Showdown's teambuilder only shows 508 EVs because, again, the extra two are always wasted and will never matter competitively. The maximum amount of EVs in game is 510.
whoa, genuinely didn't know that both it is that and that builder doesn't make it invalid. Cool! I assume it is there so if you accidentally ev train wrong, you have some leeway.
 
Speaking of EVs, here is a little tip.
Since max amount of EVs you can have in a stat is 252, you get 63 points to work with when you exclude natures.
You can use this somewhat to gauge speed and what you can outspeed without looking it up, typically for no investment rather than min speed.
For instance, I know Kingambit‘s uninvested speed stat is 136 by doing simple math. 50 * 2 + (31 + 5) = 136. I also know at max Speed no nature, Kingambit can outspeed uninvested base 81s. 199 - 1 = 198 - 36 = 162 / 2 = 81.
Still if you can, probably do look it up instead of using a calculator. Showdown will show speed stat of 0 IV negative nature as the minimum which is obviously lower than just uninvested.
 
Speaking of EVs, here is a little tip.
Since max amount of EVs you can have in a stat is 252, you get 63 points to work with when you exclude natures.
You can use this somewhat to gauge speed and what you can outspeed without looking it up, typically for no investment rather than min speed.
For instance, I know Kingambit‘s uninvested speed stat is 136 by doing simple math. 50 * 2 + (31 + 5) = 136. I also know at max Speed no nature, Kingambit can outspeed uninvested base 81s. 199 - 1 = 198 - 36 = 162 / 2 = 81.
Still if you can, probably do look it up instead of using a calculator. Showdown will show speed stat of 0 IV negative nature as the minimum which is obviously lower than just uninvested.
i vaguely recall there being some browser extension or other that goes more in-depth with speed tiers, shows you what your opponents are statistically likely to be running, does calcs for you automatically, etc, but i don't remember what it's called or if it still exists
 
i vaguely recall there being some browser extension or other that goes more in-depth with speed tiers, shows you what your opponents are statistically likely to be running, does calcs for you automatically, etc, but i don't remember what it's called or if it still exists
219 speed and 301 speed is now ingrained into my brain and I will always remember those numbers. It's kinda funny how speed tiers have gone in SV. Sure, things have gone insanely fast, but they have also slowed down. 55 speed and 87 speed would be weird numbers to choose in earlier generations, but in this one, they are probably more important than something like base 100. You can see this in kyurem, which while it had a good speed tier, it wasn't spectacular. Now, it's speed tier is even better simply because it can outrun tusk.
 
so what is the reason for gholdengo being even remotely considered for a ban? i get that its because it invalidates hazard removal and makes stall a worse playstyle, but why does that matter? as far as i know, smogon's basic ideology is "uncompetitive means the better player doesnt mostly win", and i just dont see how that has anything to do with certain playstyles being good or bad in the meta.

why is there an expectation that certain strategies must be viable and all playstyles must be viable? when generations change, certain things just get better or worse, and i dont see the problem with that. yestergeneration's premier playstyle could be this generation's niche, thats how it has been for things like weather (from gen 5 to following gens), for spikes+phazing spam (from gen 3 to following gens), and now with hazard removal (from gen 8 to current gen). different strategies and playstyles being viable doesnt necessarily mean one meta is less competitive than the other, they can be just as skill-based.

i do get why so many people of the general public want gholdengo banned, its not for the sake of competitiveness but for the sake of fun, people want to enjoy their favourite playstyles in the current gen and dont like certain strategies being invalidated, they want a varied meta, but variety is not necessarily what smogon considers when tailoring a format, and fun even less so, due to how subjective it is. i mean, if you ask me, hazard removal is not fun to play with or against and gholdengo therefore makes the game more fun, but thats beside the point.

so... are gholdengo and its enabling of hazard stacking actually uncompetitive in some form that im missing? is there an actual necessity for every major playstyle to be equally as viable, for competitiveness's sake? or does smogon have something more that they consider important besides just competitiveness? if the answers to all of these questions are "no", then i cant see a reason to seriously consider a gholdengo ban.
 
Okay, so this has been a long time coming, but here is another gimmick team. I will probably be uploading one every two-three days, though don't hold me to that because I am bad at schedules.

:sv/kilowattrel:
Kilowattrel @ Petaya Berry
Ability: Wind Power
Tera Type: Electric
EVs: 248 HP / 8 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Tailwind
- Electric Terrain
- Endure
- Electro Ball
Electro Ball go brrrr. This set's main aspect is to make electro ball do insane damage, while still giving decent support to the team. Tailwind of course activates wind power, which gives kilowattrel the charge state, while also giving a level of speed control the rest of the team can use. Electric terrain of course boosts the power of electric type moves and prevents sleep, so if you don't like darkrai, this is the set for you. Wait, flying types don't get the effects of terrain i.e. the priority immunity of psychic terrain. Oh shit, guess you have to tera electric. Endure allows you to more reliably get the petaya berry boost, as kilowattrel has awful defenses. Overall, this set is kinda niche, as it is stonewalled by any ground type, it can do amazing damage to anything. I'll leave you with a calc to show you.
+1 252 SpA Tera Electric Kilowattrel Electro Ball (80 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Gholdengo in Electric Terrain: 316-372 (100.3 - 118%) -- guaranteed OHKO

:sv/shiftry:
Shiftry @ Mental Herb
Ability: Wind Rider
Tera Type: Fighting
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Imprison
- Knock Off
- Low Kick
- Tailwind
Next up, we have another mon that uses tailwind, shiftry. I think its kinda cool how they went back and gave an awful mon an actually great buff by changing its ability. This set can be used as a normal shiftry set, though it can also help against various other mons. Imprison if you don't know, makes it so the opponent can't use any moves that you have on the imprison mon, which is usually relegated to vgc territory. However, I wanted to try it out in singles. The two attacking moves could potentially be any move you want, though I chose knock and low kick because they still are good offensive moves. White herb can prevent any taunt attempts and allow you to fully get off imprison. The combination of knock off and low kick can be quite devestating with the plus one from tailwind, while preventing the opponent from firing back with these two moves of there own. With tailwind, you easily outspeed lots of OU mons, and can get off an imprison to stop them from doing what they want. Overall, this set may be kinda niche, but it has its applications on a few teams.

:sv/clawitzer:
Clawitzer @ Life Orb
Ability: Mega Launcher
Tera Type: Dragon
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpA
Brave Nature
- Swords Dance
- Crabhammer
- U-turn
- Dragon Pulse
This is probably the most niche of the sets that I have for this team, despite the fact that the logic is kinda sound. I just love using swords dance sets on primarily special attackers, it has a lot of suprise value. Clawitzer is a mon that is usually overlooked, but not today. This set's main gimmick is using boosted crabhammers to deal impressive damage while u-turning on any switches. Sometimes though, just using crabhammer is better because clawitzer is quite slow. Dragon pulse and tera dragon allow some form of counterplay against physically bulky mons that can check +2 crabhammer. Overall, this mon is kinda niche, but I love it anyways. Let's get more clawitzer love.

:sv/palossand:
Palossand @ Passho Berry
Ability: Water Compaction
Tera Type: Flying
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Sandstorm
- Shore Up
- Scorching Sands
- Hex
Palossand, my beloved, you rise once again. This set takes advantage of a little known quirk of palossand's signature move, shore up. In the sandstorm condition, shore up actually recovers 3/4 of the user's health, which is amazing for recovery purposes. This set uses that by setting up its own sandstorm and dealing good damage with scorching sands, hoping for a burn to get the double damage with hex. Tera flying is just a great neutral tera type as it is alright when paired with ground's immunity to electric moves. Passho berry also takes advantage of water compaction, meaning palossand can become quite bulky and unkillable in the right scenario. Overall, palossand can take lots of hits using this set and retaliate with scorching sands, with burn galore making it extremely bulky on the physical side.

:sv/dodrio:
Dodrio @ Liechi Berry
Ability: Early Bird
Tera Type: Dark
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Rest
- Knock Off
- Drill Peck (Brave bird if you want to)
- Protect
You didn't expect a rest dodrio today did you? Yep, that's right, a kinda bulky dodrio. Despite what the ev's/stats show, this dodrio has been able to live many hits and get off a rest. This set was inspired by the fact that not many mons in SV get early bird, which reduces the sleep counter by 2 everytime a sleep turn occurs. I created this team before hypnosis spam got popular, so guess I was ahead of the trend. With protect and rest, dodrio can become quite annoying, wasting other mons time and getting the boost from liechi berry. With amazing 110 speed, dodrio can also outspeed many mons, allowing it the opportunity to get a protect off or to rest another time. The combination of knock off and drill peck gives amazing coverage, with only gambit resisting the combo in OU. This bird can become quite annoying if not dealt with as boosted attacks can hit incredibly hard. Brave bird wasn't chosen to increase the longevity of dodrio, as it can usually get into liechi range without any recoil damage. Overall, dodrio is a fun mon to try that can have the opponent tearing out their hair in frustration.

:sv/delphox:
Delphox @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Magician
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Wish
- Hex
- Will-O-Wisp
- Protect
Finally, we have delphox. This set is inspired by a set in gen 7, where bulky delphox with wish was a legitimate set go look it up cause it is neat, though it did use mystical fire and toxic on that set. I decided to do it a bit more differently and slotted in hex + wisp. The main point of this set is to check many different mons, as phox's 100 sp.Defense is quite good, while will-o-wisp helps against physical attackers. Wish gives recovery to this set when sitrus berry runs out, which was chosen over lefties because delphox can live a hit most of the time. Tera water is just a good defensive tera that can help against opposing water types and let delphox get a wish off. Overall, this set has a unique origin and can do a decent amount of work.
 
Just wanna say, Ampharos really does work in OU with the niche I’ve talked about. Ampharos beautifully baits out the opponent’s ground Mon, hits like a hammer, and has Static to top it all off and cripple fast sweepers. Here’s a replay of Ampharos doing all that, although I ended up losing. I probably should’ve utilized Arch to eliminate Skeledirge before the Torch Song boosts.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-2040755427
 
Just wanna say, Ampharos really does work in OU with the niche I’ve talked about. Ampharos beautifully baits out the opponent’s ground Mon, hits like a hammer, and has Static to top it all off and cripple fast sweepers. Here’s a replay of Ampharos doing all that, although I ended up losing. I probably should’ve utilized Arch to eliminate Skeledirge before the Torch Song boosts.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-2040755427
Just some thoughts on the battle, it is a good team, but some mistakes were made.
One thing I can see there is that you clicked electro shot when you knew they had alluring voice. Although electro shot is a great move, it was most likely the wrong thing to do there, as the confusion kinda screwed you over. Also, I noticed that your team is at least semi-reliant on rain, so preserving pelliper is key. The switch in to rillaboom was unecessary as something like arch would be able to take it. Also, I would suggest that you either 1. switch treads for tusk, because tusk while slower does have better synergy on your team as you already have a steel type or 2. If you want to keep treads, probably put iron head over ice spinner as that skeledirge sweep could have been stopped if you had iron head.
These were just my thoughts, though this is a great team idea and I can see where ampharos shines. I think with a bit more refinement, this team could do great.
 
Sleep - 3
I agree that it is something to deal with, but it should be dealt in a Smogon-wide discussion. MeepBard's solution is the most appeasing at the moment (graying out sleep moves after a mon has been put to sleep). As for OU in particular, I believe we should handle it on a mon to mon basis, Darkrai is not the same as Amoonguss.

Tera - Action yes, outright ban no
I'm all fine and dandy with suspecting it and seeing what the arguments for and against it are, but I genuinely like it personally. Practically as well, I think that it'd be a chore and a half to restablish Gen 9 OU as a meta after Tera was gone.

:kyurem: - 5
Extremely oppressive, bulldozes through everything. Extremely limited counter play limited to Orthworm and not much else.

:gouging fire: - 1
It's strong, it's bulky, but it's not unkillable and it's very tera reliant. I see it as a force for good in the meta, kind of a Magearna kind of mon.

:roaring moon: - 4
Probably a bit too strong with a big Knock Off and Tera Flying Acro shenanigans. Deserves a suspect.

:archaludon: - 1
A non-factor tbh. Rain is rare and hard to justify, and utility sets are walled by Fairies. Kind of jack of all trades master of none.

:gholdengo: - 1
With Gouging Fire around, it gets so easy to play around. I like it, I like what it brings to table, I wouldn't touch it.

:kingambit: - 1
With this and Ghold its like I know many people want a suspect and they probably deserve one, but i'm going to vote 1 to lower score bc 1. I don't think its urgent and 2. I kinda like em.

:deoxys-speed: - 3
It's stronk yeah. Psycho Boost is a nightmare if you don't run Dark types. I just don't think it's oppressive at the time. Maybe with further bans it gets tough.

Anything else?
Species Clause rework. Pokemon has changed since the inception of Smogon and regional forms have no reason of being locked out of the same team.
 

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