Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion

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Is there some OU mon that can kill (2HKO) both clodsire and dondozo ? I'm having difficulties taking them down when in the same core
Special or Mixed variants of Valiant usually does the job pretty well with Thunderbolt + Psyshock (Life Orb / EBelt / Pixie plate) or Thunderbolt + Trick (Specs)
Though honestly the main reason why I'm getting past Dondozo most of the time is because I'm running Electric coverage on everything for the stupid fish and Corv (and Pex because who could ever recover from Gen 8 PTSD)
 
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Special or Mixed variants of Valiant usually does the job pretty well with Thunderbolt + Psyshock (Life Orb / EBelt / Pixie plate) or Thunderbolt + Trick (Specs)
Though honestly the main reason why I'm getting past Dondozo most of the time is because I'm running Electric coverage on everything for the stupid fish and Corv.
I think dondozo is extremely annoying to deal with. I get that people tend to focus on threats but once this thing starts spamming curse it's pretty difficult to get rid of it without a specialized answer. It's overall easier to answer annihilape than this thing imo.
 
Did you know that Finchinator is a secret boss in Scarlet and Violet? Here's my proof:



Just so this isn't a total joke post, I'll leave some questions for discussion:

1) Hyper Offense
2) Bulky Offense
3) Balance
4) Stall

1. Rank the above in terms of how much you prefer the above playstyles and how effective/good they are in your opinion (1 being the best and 4 being the worst)
2. What Pokemon do you think are staples for each playstyle, or are very good for each specific playstyle?
3. What are some fun pokemon you like for each playstyle, or for some playstyles
4. Most overrated Pokemon in your opinion?
5. Most underrated Pokemon in your opinion?
6. Favorite new Generation 9 pokemon to use?
7. Favorite returning Pokemon from Gens 1-8 to use?
8. Have you tried out any of the new items? If so, are there any you like or any that are making a solid impact in OU?
9. On a scale of 1-10, how much are you enjoying SV OU, with 1 being the least and 10 being the most?
10. On a scale of 1-10, how competitive do you find SV OU, with 1 being the least competitive and 10 being the most competitive?

Thanks again for all of the discussion so far. Keep up the good work, keep having fun, and myself and all of the mods and the council look forward to seeing what you all have to share in the near future. Have a nice day :]
1. Hyper Offense/Stall/Bulky Offense/Balance.
Hyper offense and stall I find being the most optimal playstyles right now. Hyper offense with the amount of offensive mons and Tera can really force through bulkier balance or bulkier offensive teams relatively easy. Stall also abuses Tera to change defensive match ups and is able to decently take on a lot of common hyper offense teams with bulkier mons. Bulky offense and balance trend behind and I find bulky offense really just have to use defensive pivots/ or defensive mons with some way to force progress (ting Lu with whirlwind, ruination with hazard stacking). Balance just seems not too good right now. You probably would want to shift towards semi stall/bulky offense and not run a more traditional balance as your damage output can’t do much vs stall and your defensive mons get overwhelmed by hyper offense.

2.There aren’t much necessary mons for each playstyle. I’d say gholdengho is necessary for stall and hyper offense for keeping hazard up. Rotom wash is necessary on bulky offense as a defensive pivot that can emergency wisp many offensive mons while just forcing progress due to the low amount of grounds that can take it on. Any of the premier offensive mons are amazing in ho like chien pao, iron valiant, and annihilape. Cyclizar/Grimm screens hyper offensive is lame but really good. Stall loves Clodsire/pex/corv/dondozo and more. Balance/bulky offense love ting Lu/chi-yu/ and corv too.
3. Iron hands is cool for bulky offense/balance. Talonflame/roaring moon/scream tail are fun for stall. HO has a lot of fun mons like Espartha/scizor/ and volcarona.
4. Annihilape. He’s really good but even with bulky teams I’ve found ways to deal with him relatively easy and with offensive teams he’s not been a big issue. Still a really good mon
though
5. Volcarona. No heatran/Tera/ and near perfect coverage with qd 3 attacks. Bulky qd is cool too.
6. Glimmora. The amount of sets you can run and a fire design leads to a fun ho lead to use.
7. Dragonite. He’s just really solid with the ekiller set.
8. The only one I touched was punching glove bulk up. Jet punch/drain punch/ice punch Palafin. It was pretty fun but not as good as the other sets. Other than that the new items don’t seem amazing outside of niche sets that can use them.
9. 8/10. Pretty fun meta. Tera makes building very fun and leads to dynamic playing. The meta feels enjoyable with the 4 quick bans being very fair and not overbearing and making the meta much better. There are some issues like gholdengho hazard stack being insane.
10. 7/10. I actually find the meta decently competitive. Tera+general mu dependence leads to it not being as competitive as it could but I rarely find myself winning/losing to anything “unfair” or “bullshit” but find it to be decently competitive.
 
I've used espeon up to 1500. I give it light clay and use it to set screens and find it's pretty effective. The main reason it's pretty useful is because it's so difficult to clear hazards because of gholdengo... but I also think a meta team built around gholdengo and glimmora is overall better.
It's not bad, I got an espeon team to 1550 or so, it's just not incredible.
 
How good is Garganacl? I think I saw it in the background footage of some Smogon youtuber's video and that's it. It seems to have alright stats but I wasn't all too impressed when I first looked at it
 

alephgalactus

Banned deucer.
How good is Garganacl? I think I saw it in the background footage of some Smogon youtuber's video and that's it. It seems to have alright stats but I wasn't all too impressed when I first looked at it
Garganacl’s definitely an OU mon through and through, especially if Tera stays. Salt Cure is one of the most busted turnly-damage moves in the game—massively chips two of the best defensive types (which also normally beat Rock) and stays even after Garganacl switches out. Its immunity to status, access to Recover, and Ghost resistance are also great. Tera Flying is good against Great Tusk and Tera Water beats Gholdengo, it’s pretty neat.
 
Did you know that Finchinator is a secret boss in Scarlet and Violet? Here's my proof:



Just so this isn't a total joke post, I'll leave some questions for discussion:

1) Hyper Offense
2) Bulky Offense
3) Balance
4) Stall

1. Rank the above in terms of how much you prefer the above playstyles and how effective/good they are in your opinion (1 being the best and 4 being the worst)
2. What Pokemon do you think are staples for each playstyle, or are very good for each specific playstyle?
3. What are some fun pokemon you like for each playstyle, or for some playstyles
4. Most overrated Pokemon in your opinion?
5. Most underrated Pokemon in your opinion?
6. Favorite new Generation 9 pokemon to use?
7. Favorite returning Pokemon from Gens 1-8 to use?
8. Have you tried out any of the new items? If so, are there any you like or any that are making a solid impact in OU?
9. On a scale of 1-10, how much are you enjoying SV OU, with 1 being the least and 10 being the most?
10. On a scale of 1-10, how competitive do you find SV OU, with 1 being the least competitive and 10 being the most competitive?

Thanks again for all of the discussion so far. Keep up the good work, keep having fun, and myself and all of the mods and the council look forward to seeing what you all have to share in the near future. Have a nice day :]
1) 3 > 2 >> 1 >>> 4 In terms of my preference of playstyle; 1 > 2 >= 4 > 3 In terms of effectiveness of playstyle in the meta. Game currently is centralized around offensive play and the new Terastallized mechanic.
4) Going to mention starters for both 4 and 5 due to my own experience testing them on different teams. Quaquaval feels like the very definition of copium, only really seeing usage after the bans of Palifin and Iron Bundle as well as the lack of strong Water types for Rain teams. Average bulk, below average speed, and easy to play around and punish.
5) I see very little discussion on Meowscarada compared to other offensive threats. The only discussion I really see is people mentioning the Protean nerf and not much else on the Pokemon itself nor its retyped Wicked Blow.
6) If I was a betting man, Tinkaton is probably going to drop out of OU when we move things. That said she is a fun utility mon who does surprisingly good damage with her signature move.
7) I tend to put Ditto on a lot of my teams in general to punish set up and because of the lack of experience due to the new generation I tend to steal games I have no business winning.
8) In game, but not competitively. No comment.
9) 7/10. I usually play in the lower tiers (RU-ZU), but it is always fun to see what is good and what works before things drop.
10) 5/10. Terastallize as a mechanic rewards offensive play far more then defensive play. I have the option that making a defensive core when any Pokemon can have either 3 STABs or Adaptability is "difficult" and hurts it on a competitive sense. Still a better and more fair mechanic then Dynamax though.
 
It's not bad, I got an espeon team to 1550 or so, it's just not incredible.
I sort of agree, but I think it's probably a lot better than some of the other mons people are running. I feel like the meta is basically some sort of glimmora/gholdengo team, a team built around screens with grimmsnarl, or a full stall team. Espeon can actually beat glimmora, has enough speed to set up screens before it gets hit, and has a recovery move which is imo why it works better than hatterene. I've tried really hard to beat gholdengo teams and I think espeon is one of the few reliable ways to keep hazards off of the field.

So I think it's a viable off meta option up to a certain elo that is way better than the random mons I see people trying to run, but not as good as the perfect meta teams built around the other 3 options I mentioned. So maybe a solid 4th best option.
 
1) 3 > 2 >> 1 >>> 4 In terms of my preference of playstyle; 1 > 2 >= 4 > 3 In terms of effectiveness of playstyle in the meta. Game currently is centralized around offensive play and the new Terastallized mechanic.
4) Going to mention starters for both 4 and 5 due to my own experience testing them on different teams. Quaquaval feels like the very definition of copium, only really seeing usage after the bans of Palifin and Iron Bundle as well as the lack of strong Water types for Rain teams. Average bulk, below average speed, and easy to play around and punish.
5) I see very little discussion on Meowscarada compared to other offensive threats. The only discussion I really see is people mentioning the Protean nerf and not much else on the Pokemon itself nor its retyped Wicked Blow.
6) If I was a betting man, Tinkaton is probably going to drop out of OU when we move things. That said she is a fun utility mon who does surprisingly good damage with her signature move.
7) I tend to put Ditto on a lot of my teams in general to punish set up and because of the lack of experience due to the new generation I tend to steal games I have no business winning.
8) In game, but not competitively. No comment.
9) 7/10. I usually play in the lower tiers (RU-ZU), but it is always fun to see what is good and what works before things drop.
10) 5/10. Terastallize as a mechanic rewards offensive play far more then defensive play. I have the option that making a defensive core when any Pokemon can have either 3 STABs or Adaptability is "difficult" and hurts it on a competitive sense. Still a better and more fair mechanic then Dynamax though.
Quaquaval can actually be very hard to deal with if used right or if the Quaquaval predicts correctly. I have been swept by it and swept with it so positioning and predicting is key with Quaquaval, and I feel like it is a rillaboom type deal where we do need answers for it but to not underestimate it.

Meowscarada and Dirge kinda feel pretty meh to me though.

Meowscarada is good but I feel like Cinderace and Greninja will overshadow it as soon as they return. Both have better coverage moves and even if gren is weaker than meowscarda with protean, it has battle bond which can help gren break things it cannot normally.

Skeledirge is interesting but I do not see it sticking in OU. I feel it will drop as I see it less often nowadays. All I see now is Dondozo/Clodsire spam.

I sort of agree, but I think it's probably a lot better than some of the other mons people are running. I feel like the meta is basically some sort of glimmora/gholdengo team, a team built around screens with grimmsnarl, or a full stall team. Espeon can actually beat glimmora, has enough speed to set up screens before it gets hit, and has a recovery move which is imo why it works better than hatterene. I've tried really hard to beat gholdengo teams and I think espeon is one of the few reliable ways to keep hazards off of the field.

So I think it's a viable off meta option up to a certain elo that is way better than the random mons I see people trying to run, but not as good as the perfect meta teams built around the other 3 options I mentioned. So maybe a solid 4th best option.
Yeah espeon isn't half bad right now with terastal, but it will probably be PU/PUBL again unfortunately by the end of this gen
 

alephgalactus

Banned deucer.
Did you know that Finchinator is a secret boss in Scarlet and Violet? Here's my proof:



Just so this isn't a total joke post, I'll leave some questions for discussion:

1) Hyper Offense
2) Bulky Offense
3) Balance
4) Stall

1. Rank the above in terms of how much you prefer the above playstyles and how effective/good they are in your opinion (1 being the best and 4 being the worst)
2. What Pokemon do you think are staples for each playstyle, or are very good for each specific playstyle?
3. What are some fun pokemon you like for each playstyle, or for some playstyles
4. Most overrated Pokemon in your opinion?
5. Most underrated Pokemon in your opinion?
6. Favorite new Generation 9 pokemon to use?
7. Favorite returning Pokemon from Gens 1-8 to use?
8. Have you tried out any of the new items? If so, are there any you like or any that are making a solid impact in OU?
9. On a scale of 1-10, how much are you enjoying SV OU, with 1 being the least and 10 being the most?
10. On a scale of 1-10, how competitive do you find SV OU, with 1 being the least competitive and 10 being the most competitive?

Thanks again for all of the discussion so far. Keep up the good work, keep having fun, and myself and all of the mods and the council look forward to seeing what you all have to share in the near future. Have a nice day :]
  1. Hyper Offense is number 1, with the other three tied at number 4 because the meta is extremely heavily tilted in favor of HO right now.
  2. Gholdengo + Glimmora, Cyclizar, and Grimmsnarl are staples of HO. Garganacl, Dondozo and Clodsire are stall staples, but I don’t think we’ll see their true potential until we get all the super-busted HO nonsense out of the meta.
  3. I like using Chien-Pao and Chi-Yu to blast holes through an opponent’s team. They should probably go, but damned if they aren’t fun to use.
  4. Lokix. So what if it has Tinted Lens First Impression? I just switch in Gholdengo because it still resists, then switch in Grimmsnarl to absorb the incoming Dark move. Maybe it’ll be better once two of the best mons in the meta aren’t double-resists to its STAB.
  5. Probably Hatterene right now. Having a mon that bounces back hazards, denies Parting Shot, and sets Trick Room is a fantastic anti-meta strat as things stand.
  6. Garganacl, no contest.
  7. I’ve been having a really fun time with Dragonite.
  8. I have a silly Clear Amulet Infestation Pex set that traps Grimmsnarl because Parting Shot doesn’t work against it, then whittles it down with Toxic. The only attack Grimm tends to run is Spirit Break to beat Dark-types, so it works very well. Also stalls out the screens. Loaded Dice Breloom seems to be the only thing actually making waves as far as the new items go, aside from the obvious Booster Energy.
  9. Probably a 7/10. It’s decently fun, but it’s dragged down by the fact that there are basically three strategies that work right now.
  10. 3 or 4. Too many things still need to go, especially Shed Tail/Cyclizar, and Tera still makes my Game Designer Brain uncomfortable. Doing another wave of bans and splitting the ladder into non-Tera and Tera OU would significantly improve things.
 
Meowscarada is good but I feel like Cinderace and Greninja will overshadow it as soon as they return. Both have better coverage moves and even if gren is weaker than meowscarda with protean, it has battle bond which can help gren break things it cannot normally.
Cinderace is interesting because with the state of Hazard control I wonder if it might go back to using Court Change instead of solely being Protean offense.

As for Greninja I do think his being a Special Attacker gives him some edge over the other two as a Protean breaker, but Battle Bond getting nerfed feels like it kills the move as a Greninja option without the sustained Ash-Greninja form.
 
Did you know that Finchinator is a secret boss in Scarlet and Violet? Here's my proof:



Just so this isn't a total joke post, I'll leave some questions for discussion:

1) Hyper Offense
2) Bulky Offense
3) Balance
4) Stall

1. Rank the above in terms of how much you prefer the above playstyles and how effective/good they are in your opinion (1 being the best and 4 being the worst)
2. What Pokemon do you think are staples for each playstyle, or are very good for each specific playstyle?
3. What are some fun pokemon you like for each playstyle, or for some playstyles
4. Most overrated Pokemon in your opinion?
5. Most underrated Pokemon in your opinion?
6. Favorite new Generation 9 pokemon to use?
7. Favorite returning Pokemon from Gens 1-8 to use?
8. Have you tried out any of the new items? If so, are there any you like or any that are making a solid impact in OU?
9. On a scale of 1-10, how much are you enjoying SV OU, with 1 being the least and 10 being the most?
10. On a scale of 1-10, how competitive do you find SV OU, with 1 being the least competitive and 10 being the most competitive?

Thanks again for all of the discussion so far. Keep up the good work, keep having fun, and myself and all of the mods and the council look forward to seeing what you all have to share in the near future. Have a nice day :]
1. I think HO is a bit "too" strong right now, and Stall is overcompensating. Balance seems neutered in comparison, and bulky offense is just alright (Bulk Up Palafin getting banned is going to shake this up)

2. Haven't rendered a full opinion yet

3. Haven't rendered a full opinion yet

4. Annihilape; it's very good but nowhere near as broken as people are claiming it to be. The extra bulk is nice, its movepool is great, and its typing/STAB combination is stupendous, but we can't ignore just how limiting base 90 speed is. In addition, its Attack stat of 115 is comparably lackluster. I think by the time the dust settles, it will be somewhere between B and A- rank in OU viability. It's nowhere NEAR as good as Marshadow was in OU, and I think the type combination is scaring people a little too much here.

5. Wo-Chien. This thing doesn't die; has Leech Seed, Knock Off, Screens, Taunt, Foul Play, a good offensive movepool, and insane defenses with an ability that reduces opposing mon's attack by 25%. Even with Flutter Mane running around the first day, I climbed up decently high in the ranks with this thing on my team. It was also one of the few things able to handle Palafin when it was in the tier. Do not sleep on this mon; it also synergizes really well with Glimmora on predicted U-Turns trying to take advantage of the 4x Bug weakness. In addition, setting its Tera type to something like Steel can win you the match if saved to the late game.

6. Tie between Wo-Chien, Gholdengo, and Great Tusk/Iron Treads.

7. Alomomola; trust me, a Physically bulky pure Water Wish passer is insane right now, especially with tech options like Chilling Water (one of the few Pokemon who can reliably use it) and Icy Wind.

8. Haven't done enough testing with new items yet to render an opinion.

9. So far, 7.5/10. It's fun with some great options, and Tera really adds some needed variety that was missing from Gen 8's meta, but I feel as though there are too many gimmick options (and not fun gimmicks, I mean gimmicks you see coming a mile away but feel vastly annoyed by *cough* Maushold *cough*). Some more fine-tuning is needed.

10. Same; 7.5/10. Same reasons as I listed in 9
 
Despite Rotom-Wash losing both Defog and Pain Split (why???), Nasty Plot is one mean set to run with all the switches it forces. Obviously not full proof, you have to rely on Hydro Pump to hit some threats. But still pretty powerful for unprepared teams that expect it to be defensive or choice scarf. +2 Discharge spam is really mean too, you can fish for both paralysis and damage.

team2.png


Here's the team I've been using. I reworked the Hatterene and TTar core to include Corviknight. It's been pretty okay so far but I'm always open to suggestions.
 
Absolutely this. I’ve actually started seeing Scarf Cyclizar, which OHKOs Dragapult with Knock Off when you give it Attack investment (so whoops there goes your opponent’s single Infiltrator mon) and screws non-Scarf Cyclizar as well. When you start seeing a Pokémon running sets specifically to answer itself because so little else threatens it, there may be a bit of a centralization problem. It’s like how I ran Imprison Flutter Mane during its 15 minutes of fame.
Feels like there's some kind of effect is cascading in some way here, can't put my finger on it.
 

alephgalactus

Banned deucer.
Despite Rotom-Wash losing both Defog and Pain Split (why???), Nasty Plot is one mean set to run with all the switches it forces. Obviously not full proof, you have to rely on Hydro Pump to hit some threats. But still pretty powerful for unprepared teams that expect it to be defensive or choice scarf. +2 Discharge spam is really mean too, you can fish for both paralysis and damage.

View attachment 469069

Here's the team I've been using. I reworked the Hatterene and TTar core to include Corviknight. It's been pretty okay so far but I'm always open to suggestions.
In case no one told you, Gen 9 has new Pokémon as well
 
I still think the correct move is banning Tera but implementing a separate Tera OU ladder so we can see what a Tera-less and a Tera meta look like in tandem. I guarantee it won’t split the playerbase because Tera is less divisive than Dexit was and implementing Natdex didn’t split the playerbase to any significant degree.
I feel like I'm one of the few people who doesn't play OU much at all and has mostly only played NatDex because the dex cuts have been a huge blow to my enjoyment of the franchise. I'm only even playing the normal OU ladder this gen so I can be involved in discussion. It still sucks because it's kind of impossible for me to make teams that have 6 Pokemon I actually like while still being viable, but I guess it's worth it to be able to involve myself in the community this gen lol
 
In case no one told you, Gen 9 has new Pokémon as well
Listen man, I won't deny that sometimes I like to be a little bit goofy silly, but I think you might be pushing it a bit sometimes. That and how rude you can get with other people is just kinda lame.

On topic: I like scarf cyclizar w/speed investment. Tried to run mine with HP investment, but found that it rarely makes a difference, so I went back to atk. hdb is also a fun one to keep yourself healthy, but I find that without scarf, theres less mons that it can enter and sub from, and it kinda dies to everything.

And a question for the thread: what have you guys been using vs the special attackers of this tier? I've been doing fine with physical threats, but special ones tend to be way harder to handle x_x
 

1LDK

It's never going to get better
is a Top Team Rater
In case no one told you, Gen 9 has new Pokémon as well
bro, if the team works who cares lmao
speaking of teams, im trying to make a stall team because i havent tried stall yet, any mons you think could be cool besides the usual gholdengo, and garganacl, i also have a regen core with susamogus and alomomola
 

alephgalactus

Banned deucer.
Listen man, I won't deny that sometimes I like to be a little bit goofy silly, but I think you might be pushing it a bit sometimes. That and how rude you can get with other people is just kinda lame.
Message received, I’ll tone it down. Apologies to anyone whom I offended or upset, I’m not the greatest at communication.
On topic: I like scarf cyclizar w/speed investment. Tried to run mine with HP investment, but found that it rarely makes a difference, so I went back to atk. hdb is also a fun one to keep yourself healthy, but I find that without scarf, theres less mons that it can enter and sub from, and it kinda dies to everything.
I’ve been running him scarfed since before the Iron Bundle ban. Beats Dragapult with Attack investment and Knock Off so you don’t have to worry about Infiltrator anymore, chunks opposing Cyclizar below 50 before they can move, it’s pretty neat.
speaking of teams, im trying to make a stall team because i havent tried stall yet, any mons you think could be cool besides the usual gholdengo, and garganacl, i also have a regen core with susamogus and alomomola
I’ve heard a lot of good things about Dondozo, but I don’t know if stacking it with Alomomomomomola would be a great idea since they’re both physically fat/specially frail pure Water-types.
 
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