Resource SS OU DLC2 Viability Ranking Thread [SEE: Page 105, Post 2618]

[Finchinator]

It serves no defensive purpose and is not fast enough to be a premier revenge killer. Kinda stuck between a rock and a hard place rn

 

[min min]

gonna throw my hat in the ring with these discussion points:

Mamoswine from C+ -> B-

haven't tried building with it yet but in practice it eats good chunks out of common Lando+Ferro cores, especially in the early game when both sides just wanna pivot around and throw out rocks. EQ smacks around top waters (Fini, Pex, Wetshifu) especially with LO or CB, which is nice since everyone's still kind of teambuilding in a post-Kyurem high and forgetting to account for another Ice/Ground breaker. Knock Off also puts in work in chipping down these waters, which helps if you have a Shifu or Volc in the back.

Zapdos-Galar from A- -> B+

probably a spicy take but the inconsistency at proccing defiant might be catching up with gzap + ladder is experimenting with a bit more chomp as a lando replacement. the speed + frailty is also kinda an issue compared to other breakers like shifu and chomp, who have always been lot easier to pilot. i think the bulk up sets can save the bird, and i'm definitely not playing him 100% perfect, but altogether i don't think the consistency is there to justify being alongside more solid wincons like blace and victini.

Kommo-o from B- -> C+ or lower

i have not seen this mon in a serious game since 2019

 

[MaahirMomtaz12]

It serves no defensive purpose and is not fast enough to be a premier revenge killer. Kinda stuck between a rock and a hard place rn

We have reached the point where 108 Speed isn't fast enough LOL

 

[Thunder Pwoell]

Terraikion is terrifying for whom? This isn’t just groupthink. The meta is awful for Terrak. As Finch said, it offers no defensive utility. That’s hard on the builder. What is it checking?

Furthermore, Lando-T is at like 50% usage and both defensive and Scarf sets check it. Off rip it’s useless in 1/2 games. It also doesn’t break Slowbro.

Compounded with that, it is revenge killed by way too many common threats - Dragapult, Kartana, Tapu Koko, Rillaboom, Zeraora, all Weather sweepers, and Scarf versions of Tapu Lele and Tapu Fini. And after a defense drop you can add Weavile, Tornadus-T, and Urshifu-R. That is literally the whole offensive meta.

Perhaps it could have some niche with Sand to augment it’s special defense. Unfortunately, no one has found success with that yet. I think Terrak is a C/C- mon. Hopefully someone will explore it more and prove us wrong..

We have reached the point when 108 Speed isn't fast enough LOL

so if I bring terrakion and show that it's fire yall would change your mind right? you both made incredulous fallacy claims with zero backup, albeit this is more than most people do on this site so do respect yall for actually clarifying; especially Finchinator . my points are that it does provide massive defensive utility as well as offensive. av, scarf, and band are all great sets that should be used more. ill bring it to #1 guaranteed

 

[SLDR]

so if I bring terrakion and show that it's fire yall would change your mind right? you both made incredulous fallacy claims with zero backup, albeit this is more than most people do on this site so do respect yall for actually clarifying; especially Finchinator . my points are that it does provide massive defensive utility as well as offensive. av, scarf, and band are all great sets that should be used more. ill bring it to #1 guaranteed

Viability and strength are two different things. To begin with, no one is questioning Terrakion's offensive presence, that would be dumb. I also think that Landorus-T being on 50% of the teams means little to nothing, because it won't take choice banded stone edges well and everyone has something to chip or remove it.

Even if you say that terrakion has "massive defensive utility", that is debatable because its typing objectively doesn't let it check much. Premier fire types have ground and psychic coverage. The main dark type Weavile is faster and its strongest move is neutral. Urshifu has better bulk and typing as a fighting type, which lets it check the cited Pokémon much better also thanks to aqua jet. It is weak to way too many priority moves as well. ts defensive utility may be there only for the rare bisharp and even then urshifu does it way better. If you can't switch into anything because your bulk and typing are deeply suboptimal in the ou environment, your defensive utility is purely revenge killing wise, most likely with scarf, which is not really a solid defensive utility. Running scarf also destroys terrakion's main niche of spamming choice banded powerful moves.

All of this hurts terrakion in terms of VIABILITY, because you would require a lot more dedicated support to make terrakion a worthwhile Mon over its competition. Once again, viability isn't a reflection of strength, otherwise kyurem would have been s+ throughout the last few months. You can bring terrakion to #1 but that wouldn't make its viability better other than maybe a subrank which really means nothing in the grand scheme of thing. Terrakion atm doesn't belong to any rank higher than C when it comes to viability.

 

[agslash23]

so if I bring terrakion and show that it's fire yall would change your mind right? you both made incredulous fallacy claims with zero backup, albeit this is more than most people do on this site so do respect yall for actually clarifying; especially Finchinator . my points are that it does provide massive defensive utility as well as offensive. av, scarf, and band are all great sets that should be used more. ill bring it to #1 guaranteed

Even if you get a Terrakion team to number 1, it will not shoot up its viability. Viability Rankings indicate how practical it is to fit a certain Pokemon on a team. Lando-T compresses too many roles in 1 slot, hence it is S-ranked. Terrakion, however, is not that easy to fit and build around, because as others mentioned, it has a poor defensive typing, gets walled by Lando, Slowbro. It is easier to fit other fighting types like Shifu, G-Zap. Some breakers with mediocre defensive utility like Tapu Lele are nigh unwallable, and some other breaker like the aforementioned Shifu has a valuable defensive utility of checking Weavile. As a rock type, TTar brings more power and defensive utility.

 

[Magcargo]

Even if you get a Terrakion team to number 1, it will not shoot up its viability. Viability Rankings indicate how practical it is to fit a certain Pokemon on a team. Lando-T compresses too many roles in 1 slot, hence it is S-ranked. Terrakion, however, is not that easy to fit and build around, because as others mentioned, it has a poor defensive typing, gets walled by Lando, Slowbro. It is easier to fit other fighting types like Shifu, G-Zap. Some breakers with mediocre defensive utility like Tapu Lele are nigh unwallable, and some other breaker like the aforementioned Shifu has a valuable defensive utility of checking Weavile. As a rock type, TTar brings more power and defensive utility.

I don't think its necessarily fair to say that Terrakion gets walled by Landorus. It has been a while since I've played SS OU, but assuming that Specially Defensive Landorus-T is still the most popular variant, it actually just gets OHKO'd by Terrakion after a small amount of chip damage.

+1 252 Atk Life Orb Terrakion Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Landorus-Therian: 347-409 (90.8 - 107%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

Slowbro similarly takes a massive amount of damage from Terrakion, though it definetly is a safer bet as a counter due to regenerate.

+2 252 Atk Life Orb Terrakion Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 286-337 (72.5 - 85.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Not advocating a rise or drop in Terrakion's ranking (as far as niche Fighting-types go, I'd much rather use Conkeldurr, Kommo-o, or Heracross) but just pointing this out.

 

[ChoiceBandSpade]

mans replying to a comment more than a year old

Don't judge me smh...

 

[agslash23]

I don't think its necessarily fair to say that Terrakion gets walled by Landorus. It has been a while since I've played SS OU, but assuming that Specially Defensive Landorus-T is still the most popular variant, it actually just gets OHKO'd by Terrakion after a small amount of chip damage.

+1 252 Atk Life Orb Terrakion Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Landorus-Therian: 347-409 (90.8 - 107%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

Slowbro similarly takes a massive amount of damage from Terrakion, though it definetly is a safer bet as a counter due to regenerate.

+2 252 Atk Life Orb Terrakion Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 286-337 (72.5 - 85.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Not advocating a rise or drop in Terrakion's ranking (as far as niche Fighting-types go, I'd much rather use Conkeldurr, Kommo-o, or Heracross) but just pointing this out.

Yeah, I get that Terrakion has insane power with SD, but the question is that which mon lets Terrakion set up for free? It has such a horrible defensive typing that there are tons of super effective and neutral hits vs it.

Also, Lando "walls" in the sense that it can pivot around it to drop Terrakion's attack. So something like Lando + Steel pivoting leaves Terrakion in a state it doesn't make a lot of progress if it doesn't predict correctly. Also, while it can 2HKO Slowbro, Slowbro can use that opportunity to set up a Future Sight or attack with Scald (coupled with potential burns), which will always force Terrakion out.

Also, as an SD breaker, it is outclassed by other mons like Kartana and Garchomp, thanks to better speed for the former and ability to boost speed for the latter. Not to mention both have much better defensive typings than Terrakion.

Terrakion has a niche for sure, but it deserves to be where it is, not rise like Thunder Pwoell suggested.

 

[theotherguytm]

Terrakion is in a similar boat to Gengar basically. It looks impressive in the calc, but lack of ability to take hits to set up SDs, lack of pivoting on Choiced sets that make it very prediction-reliant, and heavy competition from other Fighting types make it as low in viability as it is.

The main differences between Gengar and Terrakion that make Gengar C+ is Gengar has a boatload of utility moves like Trick, Destiny Bond and Encore/Disable to make it a whole lot less predictable, a few immunities to work with on the defensive end, and a STAB combo that hits basically the entire game making its coverage somewhat redundant and hence saving a vital moveslot.

so if I bring terrakion and show that it's fire yall would change your mind right? you both made incredulous fallacy claims with zero backup, albeit this is more than most people do on this site so do respect yall for actually clarifying; especially Finchinator . my points are that it does provide massive defensive utility as well as offensive. av, scarf, and band are all great sets that should be used more. ill bring it to #1 guaranteed

I think you forget sometimes not everyone has your crackhead ballsy plays and fiery building skills... For us mere mortals I think getting Terrakion anywhere that can't be got by Urshifu-R is more difficult.

 

[Thunder Pwoell]

Yeah, I get that Terrakion has insane power with SD, but the question is that which mon lets Terrakion set up for free? It has such a horrible defensive typing that there are tons of super effective and neutral hits vs it.

just so we are clear, I just started running the terrakion team and I am able to setup SD's pretty easily. there are a lot of mons that are flat out afraid of terrakion as it has no switch ins and is ACTUALLY naturally bulky. there are several easy situations to gets Sds on and your personal incredulity does not change that fact. it's actually disingenuous to me since you could easily come across those situations if you actually tried it out - IMHO

 

[SLDR]

just so we are clear, I just started running the terrakion team and I am able to setup SD's pretty easily. there are a lot of mons that are flat out afraid of terrakion as it has no switch ins and is ACTUALLY naturally bulky. there are several easy situations to gets Sds on and your personal incredulity does not change that fact. it's actually disingenuous to me since you could easily come across those situations if you actually tried it out - IMHO

As much as I don't fully subscribe to your opinion about Terrakion when it comes strictly about viability, this is where I agree with you the most. Many setup sweepers create their set-up opportunities out of forcing switches and SD Terrakion is no different. Anyone who leaves their Ferrothorn or Zapdos against Terrakion when they have a better check in the back is playing silly, even though Ferrothorn and Zapdos can KO / cripple Terrakion with a STAB move, respectively. This becomes even more silly when they don't know what set Terrakion is using yet. These type of scenarios are usually what would give Terrakion a chance to set-up.

The only drawback of doing this with Terrakion specifically is just that many Pokémon it forces out are also able of crippling or outright KOing it, which makes it somewhat risky to pull off and is up to a player's understanding of how the opponent is playing, which is why I believe other people pointed out to you that Terrakion can't set up against anything. It's not that it can't period, its just that, if the Pokémon stays in, Terrakion has a high chance of being crippled when trying to set up. All of this just to say that yes, Terrakion can indeed setup, it's just more risky. Once again, this does not put Terrakion in a worse tier when it comes to strength, it only hurts its viability. Keep in mind that, while a good player can definitely make Terrakion work, viability is also a reflection of how easy and safe is one specific pokèmon to pull of and make work. Terrakion isn't as easy as other, higher ranked ones and recent metagame changes have put into the forefront some extra checks to it than before. This hasn't made it unviable, just less viable until someone finds a new way of using or supporting terrakion.

Despite being weak to everything under the sun and being check by common mons, terrakion is still strong af and is even more dangerous when it has future sight support. I love terrakion myself so if you want to get some outside perspective or even help with your team, I'm more than happy to do so :)

 

[RaikouLover]

Both sides have great points. I am looking forward to seeing some experimentation and replays showcasing Terrakion. Thunder Pwoell brings up a good point about its natural bulk. Maybe it can check Heatran and a few other things with Sand support? Dedicated sand teams have fallen out of favor lately but perhaps that could change.

 

[Thunder Pwoell]

update- up to 1800 with terrakion. I’m using a LO sd set. 30% of games it shines amazingly and 6-0s by itself. It breaks holes in many games but it sacrifices itself sometimes. as suspected, teams are flat out afraid of terrakion and try and find switchins constantly - usually lando - but end up taking 60% after 1.5x or 40%


started from 1200 so replays VARY Niftyyyy also agslash23 in these me being some god tier predictor had little to do with the sds

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1488881793
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1488802364
this one is very nuanced. he was flat out afraid of terrakion the entire game and tried his best to circumvent that until the end where he just loses
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1490349526-lupkdegj8tqgljaget6ta5umyfduyixpw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1489826502-vtyhfwa8enm5de8q9396hkb540p6cmkpw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1489770497-7pte8ct6swoyw5f6ublzwt975g0ajakpw

 

[Niftyyyy]

update- up to 1800 with terrakion. I’m using a LO sd set. 30% of games it shines amazingly and 6-0s by itself. It breaks holes in many games but it sacrifices itself sometimes. as suspected, teams are flat out afraid of terrakion and try and find switchins constantly - usually lando - but end up taking 60% after 1.5x or 40%

How about some replays?

 

[agslash23]

update- up to 1800 with terrakion. I’m using a LO sd set. 30% of games it shines amazingly and 6-0s by itself. It breaks holes in many games but it sacrifices itself sometimes. as suspected, teams are flat out afraid of terrakion and try and find switchins constantly - usually lando - but end up taking 60% after 1.5x or 40%

Congrats on your brilliant run with Terrakion. You're a legend of a player.

With that being said, I'm sure that the VR team will still not raise Terrakion's VR.

That's because the SD chances you are talking about are likely to be 50/50s in which one wrong prediction can get the Terrakion weakened enough to do nothing noteworthy after that. Fact that the 50/50s were usually in your favour is because of your skill viability (S+++++ or perhaps we create a new ranking above S) rather than Terrak's in-game viability. For people lacking your sixth sense, something like Kartana or Garchomp is easier to use in order to accomplish the role of SD breaker.

 

[Thunder Pwoell]

Congrats on your brilliant run with Terrakion. You're a legend of a player.

With that being said, I'm sure that the VR team will still not raise Terrakion's VR.

That's because the SD chances you are talking about are likely to be 50/50s in which one wrong prediction can get the Terrakion weakened enough to do nothing noteworthy after that. Fact that the 50/50s were usually in your favour is because of your skill viability (S+++++ or perhaps we create a new ranking above S) rather than Terrak's in-game viability. For people lacking your sixth sense, something like Kartana or Garchomp is easier to use in order to accomplish the role of SD breaker.

replays are in there now. ur wrong

Bunch of bad replays and bad teams. I have used Terrakion a lot in the course of 6 months on and off I promise you it's not that serious and its viability is probably too low listed but it's not even worth engaging in a whole page convo for.

cool story bro lol that's your opinion. AM

 

[AM]

Bunch of bad replays and bad teams. I have used Terrakion a lot in the course of 6 months on and off I promise you it's not that serious and its viability is probably too low listed but it's not even worth engaging in a whole page convo for.

 

[Endrism]

Something I wanna bring up on the Terrakion discussion. I love using Terrakion, used it many times but heres my thing on viability.

Ultimately, the viability rankings are subjective. Even the official viability rankings may not be the absolute factual viability rankings for everyone, especially the lower ranks there are pokemon that some people will find way more useful than others. Just because your favorite pokemon to use is C or even UR doesn't mean you absolutely shouldn't use it. I believe many pokemon outside of the VR have good niches i.e Slurpuff on Webs. While I love using Terrakion I understand the reasoning they give for it's current status, but that isn't going to stop me from using it. Terrakion is a viable pokemon, and even as someone who loves to use Suicide Taunt Terrakion on HO, I think it's fine in the C ranks, and I'm still gonna use it even if it gets Unranked.

 

[fruityiscool423]

Hey everyone,I hope you all are doing well.I would like to nominate Articuno-Galar to C- rank.I think it has a really strong hard hitting STAB hurricane and as you know the most common mon in the tier Landorus-Therian has intimidate,and Articuno-Galar has Competitive if you can lure in lando and double to Articuno-Galar it can get +2 which means a +3 with specs and it becomes an absolute beast after that boost,and yes I tried it from the famous Zapdos-Galar + Regieleki core. Now you may think it gets walled by every steel in existence because it doesn't have coverage for them. Well,no. Here are some calcs proving that statement wrong.

[ ] +2 252 SpA Choice Specs Articuno-Galar Hurricane vs. 252 HP / 136+ SpD Heatran: 199-235 (51.5 - 60.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

+2 252 SpA Choice Specs Articuno-Galar Hurricane vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Ferrothorn: 339-400 (96.3 - 113.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

+2 252 SpA Choice Specs Articuno-Galar Hurricane vs. 248 HP / 92 SpD Corviknight: 270-318 (67.6 - 79.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

+2 252 SpA Choice Specs Articuno-Galar Hurricane vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Scizor: 435-513 (126.8 - 149.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 SpA Choice Specs Articuno-Galar Hurricane vs. 252 HP / 176+ SpD Assault Vest Slowking-Galar: 250-295 (63.4 - 74.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

+2 252 SpA Choice Specs Articuno-Galar Hurricane vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Clefable: 405-477 (102.7 - 121%) -- guaranteed OHKO

+2 252 SpA Choice Specs Articuno-Galar Hurricane vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Magnezone: 142-168 (50.3 - 59.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery(quad resist btw)

+2 252 SpA Choice Specs Articuno-Galar Hurricane vs. 128 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Melmetal: 165-194 (37.2 - 43.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock

So out of those calcs only Assault Vest Melmetal can take 2 hits but the lack of recovery or regen really hurts it therefore it can only switchin to it once.

Here are some replays in which me and my friend Stunfisk2140 used galarian articuno

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1491300567-37okk4phkn0f720aivywm6y1ibb16wjpw
Garticuno shows its bulk

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1490622287-t06krjsjuy4u9sfpr4tfdsbljup71idpw
Garticuno destroying corviknight,slowking galar and magnezone

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1490608024-dxgagzknai0bm6pzfkorudr5r1ulqdupw blissey drops to psyshock

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1491189737-877iwszdym231i3c8e2ph7os4xttnejpw
Garticuno destroys lando to help zera break

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1491168242-47oop4v1bfonhqsebtxdmfv6r1tw816pw
Garticuno comes in and destroys corviknight toxapex and zapdos.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1491153917
Garticuno kills lando turn 1 and causes early forfeit

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1490514117
Garticuno destroying heatran,corviknight and ferrothorn

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1489968958
Garticuno destroys opposing rain

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1492026575-tdcm0kv36vffos3nvgeky8auts0qzcgpw
Garticuno destroys stall

A video in which blimax used Galarian articuno in high ladder

The set I've been using

Articuno-Galar @ Choice Specs
Ability: Competitive
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Hurricane
- Freezing Glare
- U-turn
- Psyshock

Articuno-Galar also has solid bulk and special attack while it is not the fastest mon it still outspeeds a lot of pokemon in the tier and speed ties with the threat tapu lele. Articuno-Galars spammable move is Hurricane it pairs well with electric types and spikes users like ferrothorn,skarmory .
With the help of electric types Galarian Articuno can can double on landorus therian and get the +2 boost which helps
it to break and if the ground is dead the electric types such as regieleki,zeraora and tapu koko can clean up late game.I might have made grammar mistakes as English is not my main language,so sorry about that. After all I think Galarian Articuno deserves a solid spot in the C- tier.

 

[Finchinator]

 

[Clone]

Just looking at early SPL games / late SCL and I'm seeing some trends I expect to continue further as the meta progresses

is a full S rank threat rn. Air Balloon usage has skyrocketed and its genuinely impressive how oppressive it can be at keeping rocks up and forcing damage whilst keeping its balloon intact. Add in its standard spdef set sprinkled with choice shenanigans and it's arguably the best mon in the meta atm. Definitely top 2 with Lando

has seen a huge resurgence with its toxic protect set. It checks half the meta, never dies, and does big damage with only 3 moveslots. Corv usage being down the gutter in favor of torn/zap and other steels definitely goes in its favor and I believe it's an easy A+ rank

should also be A+. I've been saying for months ppl sleep on this mon and SPL is finally showing how stupid this mon can be. Scarf just cleans, band breaks, and SD sweeps

should be A. I still think defog is ass but pivot and offensive sets are really scary with glowking usage falling and zap forcing damage on everything else. Electric/flying coverage hits almost every relevant mon and can those it can't are either Volt Switched on or hit with a timely Toxic. Add in the defensive value of checking grasses, torn, gap, u turn spam, waters, and the broken ability static, and you've got a mon that is rarely useless in a game.

Slowbro, garchomp, and koko are all at that borderline A+/A threshold and can go in either rank tbh, weavile is pretty meh rn, and lele is seeing a resurgence, so I could see any of these mons moving up / down in the coming weeks as time goes on. Looking forward to seeing how things look in a month or two

 

[PokePoindexter]

It's hard to believe that one of the most dominant mons of the generation I started doing competitive battling in is now struggling to stay relevant in OU, but that's where we are now. Terrakion can be a solid Pokemon (hence why it deserves to be ranked at all), but there are better options available (hence why IMO it shouldn't be ranked higher than where it is). Plus, this metagame is downright cruel to Terrakion right now. Without SD, it's a sitting duck against Toxapex, Corviknight, and Landorus-T. Without Scarf, Kartana and Dragapult walk all over it. And that's saying nothing of things like Rain, Clefable, Tapu Lele (and Fini for that matter), Rillaboom, and Slowbro that Terrakion is useless against. Even Hail, which in theory Terrakion should easily be able to annihilate, is a massive crapshoot for it. On the occasion that Alolan Ninetales runs Moonblast, it always 2HKOs, whereas Terrakion can't OHKO it if it has Veil up; meanwhile, Arctozolt's Bolt Beak when Hail is up is doing 85% damage minimum, and once again, if it's behind Veil, Terrakion can't guarantee an OHKO on it. So Terrakion isn't altogether terrible, but it's pretty hard to find a convincing reason to use it at the moment.

(EDIT: Wow, did I seriously leave this for about an hour and a half before finally posting it?)

 

[Vittorioso]

Hide

Just looking at early SPL games / late SCL and I'm seeing some trends I expect to continue further as the meta progresses

is a full S rank threat rn. Air Balloon usage has skyrocketed and its genuinely impressive how oppressive it can be at keeping rocks up and forcing damage whilst keeping its balloon intact. Add in its standard spdef set sprinkled with choice shenanigans and it's arguably the best mon in the meta atm. Definitely top 2 with Lando

has seen a huge resurgence with its toxic protect set. It checks half the meta, never dies, and does big damage with only 3 moveslots. Corv usage being down the gutter in favor of torn/zap and other steels definitely goes in its favor and I believe it's an easy A+ rank

should also be A+. I've been saying for months ppl sleep on this mon and SPL is finally showing how stupid this mon can be. Scarf just cleans, band breaks, and SD sweeps

should be A. I still think defog is ass but pivot and offensive sets are really scary with glowking usage falling and zap forcing damage on everything else. Electric/flying coverage hits almost every relevant mon and can those it can't are either Volt Switched on or hit with a timely Toxic. Add in the defensive value of checking grasses, torn, gap, u turn spam, waters, and the broken ability static, and you've got a mon that is rarely useless in a game.

Slowbro, garchomp, and koko are all at that borderline A+/A threshold and can go in either rank tbh, weavile is pretty meh rn, and lele is seeing a resurgence, so I could see any of these mons moving up / down in the coming weeks as time goes on. Looking forward to seeing how things look in a month or two

Definitely agree with all of these takes, toxic protect is in a super good spot right now and is hard to deal with for a lot of balance squads that are dropping the steel birds.

Adding to this, defensive sets (and by that I mean physically defensive) with flame body have also been pretty nice for me lately. I usually run Heavy Slam and Toxic on these sets, allowing it to deal with Weavile without having to worry about missing magma storm, offering offensive potential against Clefable, while still being able to toxic the usual suspects such as Volcarona, Dragonite, and Gastrodon. I think the variety, consistency and overall strength of Heatran really lends itself to a top ranking in viability.

Beyond this, I've been using a lot more after the Kyurem ban, and I think it is definitely in a better spot. Being able to check Tapu Lele, Volcanion & Nidoking while retaining Future-Port gives it a nice niche over on balance. That said, I think it is good at B, but I do think it is better than at the moment, which suffers from toxic spam from electrics and heatran, as well as grass coverage on mons like Volcarona. Would like to know what other peoples opinions are on this!

 

[TailGlowVM]

to B+: While Arctozolt is still effective at breaking down some structures, now that it's well prepared for between numerous revenge killers, an ever increasing number of Steel-types, and the Corviknight bulky offenses it was meant to target massively declining, it's difficult to justify using it over other breakers that don't need a second Pokemon run almost entirely to support it.