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Porygon2 @ Leftovers
Ability: Trace
EVs: 252 HP / 148 Def / 108 SpA
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Ice Beam
- Thunderbolt
- Recover
- Thunder Wave / Toxic

Porygon2's really cool in ADV. Trace allows it to shoot an Intimidate back at Salamence and Gyarados and retaliate with Ice Beam and Thunderbolt, respectively, wall Flygon and Claydol with Levitate and dish heavy damage back with Ice Beam, wall the Volt/Water Absorb mons like Jolteon, Lanturn, and Vaporeon, respectively, and most importantly, it counter-traps Dugtrio with a Traced Arena Trap. Pokemon that are vulnerable to HP Bug Dugtrio trapping, such as Celebi, Tyranitar, Magneton, and Jolteon make for excellent partners to this set as they appreciate P2's ability to turn Arena Trap against opposing Dugtrio.

The EVs in bulk are meant to avoid the 2HKO from Choice Band Dugtrio's Earthquake after Leftovers, and the rest goes to Special Attack investment and a modest nature to enable P2 to reliably take out the threats it wants to check.
Trace doesn't shoot back an intim, Lanturn isn't a thing in the tier, and Jolt doesnt get trapped by Dug. Other than that, nice post man. Your set is pretty much the standard moveset with more SAtk than usual, which is workable so that it's not as easily repeatedly abused so hard by Meta switchins and the like. Quite a few people prefer to run Bold P2 with more Defense, mainly to keep you in the black vs Adamant Dug, but also for the general utility of being an Aero/Mence switch and the like.

Other options for RSE P2 include Thunder over Bolt if you are feeling 70% lucky, it's good vs Skarm and the guys. You can also run double status if you have Mag on the team which you sometimes do with P2. HP Fire was a decent pick when Forry was a bit bigger a couple years back. Finally, you can run Sharpen, but only if you have had more than 50 sexual partners. You will need the fallback of an extremely active sex life when you quit Pokemon after setting up to +6 on an AA-locked Dug that's got your Hera, then proceeding to still get walled by Ttar.
 

Oglemi

Borf
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:flames:



What do you guys think of the butthead, duck face fire man? Think there's any place for it competitively in OU in RBY-ADV? Magmortar is definitely the more interesting one, with a giant movepool and huge Special Attack, surely there's some niche that it fills in DPP-ORAS? What do you guys think?

Let's try to get some gen 4-6 input this go around!

 
Magmar doesn't have any redeeming qualities that make it viable in any OU tier. Magmortar was limited severely by the introduction of Stealth Rock and it almost always outclassed by Heatran in DPP - ORAS. However, I think Magmortar actually does have some potential as an attacking lead in DPP, similar to Empoleon; its matchup spread is fairly impressive. If it got Vital Spirit as an ability in DPP, I'd say it'd be a viable choice within the metagame.


Magmortar @ Lum Berry / Focus Sash / Passho Berry
Ability: Flame Body
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe or 64 HP / 156 SpA / 40 SpD / 248 Spe
Modest / Timid Nature
- Fire Blast
- Thunderbolt / Hidden Power [Grass]
- Focus Blast
- Mach Punch

This set matches up well against SR steel leads (Jirachi, Metagross, Zong), Azelf, opposing sash leads if Sash (Empoleon, Aero, TTar), and Roserade if Lum. Heatran can go either way; Specs OHKOs you but you outspeed Modest Tran and chunk for a lot if Modest. One of the biggest boons of Magmortar in general is how threatening it is to bulky sand teams. Focus Blast OHKOs any non-SpD/Chople TTar, 2HKOs Clefable (sometimes with Fire Blast on the switch too), and T-Bolt / HP [Grass] beat down Starmie / Pert respectively. Overall I'd say it's outclassed by Emp in general because it requires more prediction to use (Starmie OHKOing hurts it af), isn't sand immune, has less lategame utility due to SR weakness, and has to choose what matchups it wants to win with item choice. Sometimes you might want its lead matchup spread on a particular team though, so it's a niche pick to keep in mind.

e: Passho can also lure Starmie while retaining Sash's positive matchup vs Emp.
 


Magmar @ Leftovers
Ability: Flame Body
IVs: 6 HP / 28 Atk / 28 Def
- Fire Blast
- Thunder Punch
- Cross Chop
- Hidden Power [Grass]

Definetely not the best Mon in GSC, but the closest one to a MixNape ( or an Adv Blaziken) that this gen has to offer.

Its the only Fire Type that learns Cross Chop, which helps to distiguish it from both Zard and the also inexistant Typhlosion, both of which have to resort to Dynamic Punch to hit Lax ( not like Zard ever uses it anyway). It is also the strongest physically out of all of them. This means that Magmar is the only Fire Type that can 3HKO ( 2HKO if Cross Chop crits) Snorlax without wasting a turn to boost ( Charcoal Sunny Day Moltres and Drum Zard can 2HKO, but need to set up first). Cross Chop also 2HKO Tar, usually 2HKO Blissey ( always with Spikes) and 3HKO Umbreon with Spikes Support. Magmar also has Thunder Punch ( which Zard and Typhlosion also do, unfortunately) and can destroy Rhydon, Quagsire and Golem with HP Grass ( Ice is also an option if you want to hit Dragonite, but I haven,t seen one of those in years. Psychic could work to 3HKO Tentacruel with Spikes Support... but Tenta outspeeds and is quite rare anyway).

Now, here is when the good things end. Fire is not exactly a good type in GSC and Magmar is both slower and weaker than Zard ( and Typhlosion, but who even uses that?). For example, Zard always OHKOs Steelix and Magmar has a chance not to. Access to EQ and Rock Slide lets Zard ( and again, Typhlosion) to threaten paralized Raikou and Zapdos, while Magmar has to resort to hax them if he wants to win. Magmar is stopped cold by both electrics and every single bulky water of OU except Cloyster. He will also usually lose one on one to Machamp and Nidoking, although he will actually do great damage to both of them ( surprisingly, he has a very low chance to be OHKOed by Nidoking's EQ). Defensively, he is also frailer than Zard, however he will always live Tar's Rock Slide and he takes better Electric and Ice moves, in exchange to that EQ weakness.

Compared to Moltres, Magmar is a little faster, but that doesn,t matter much, when the only things that Magmar outspeeds are Moltres himself and the rare Kangaskhan ( however, this means that he will usually beat Moltres one on one, as Thunder Punch 3HKOs). Moltres is much stronger and bulkier, in exchange to a worse movepool and greater weakness to Rock and Electric.

Houndoom is also a stronger, faster and specially bulkier than Magmar, having a second STAB and resistance to Dark and Ghost too. Magmar is actually a little bulkier phisically, but again, that doesn,t say much for him. The only other advantage is having a slightly better match-up aganst Machamp and Heracrss.


In the end, Magmar is bad. It should only be used if your team needs a Fire Type that can damage Snorlax without boosting himself or beating Tyranitar one on one. Spikes and Paralisis support are nearly obligatory when using Magmar. Probably he DOES DESERVE BEING a D RANK in the Viability Rankings as I do believe he is BETTER than TYPHLOSION who is present there.





Mr. Magma (Magmar)
- Submission
- Fire Blast
- Body Slam
- Hyper Beam

Other options: Psychic, Confuse Ray, Counter, Metronome. Only Fire Type who learns these move.

In RBY, Magmar is even worse than in GSC, yet he has a small niche. Other Fire Types have Fire Spin to troll Standart Teams, but not Magmar. Ninetales, Charizard, Arcanine and even Rapidash are faster, more powerful and bulkier Fire Types as well. Flareon and Moltres are slower, but still bulkier and stronger.

The one niche Magmar has is this:

Magmar Submission vs. Chansey: 308-362 (43.8 - 51.4%) -- 7.9% chance to 2HKO

He only needs a little chip damage to 2HKO Chansey. Flareon does bigger damage with Hyperbeam, but prediction is required to use that.

Fire STAB and 30% of Burn threaten Lax, Tauros and the Rocks, but that is something other Fire Types can do too.

In other words, Magmar is outclassed by every other Fire Type in RBY, except for its ability to 2HKO a damaged Chansey. Usually not worth it, unfortunately.



This Mon does have an Adv OU analysis, yet I consider it completely outclassed there. Even Charizard has now Focus Punch and is stronger, faster and bulkier. Blaziken is slower, but hits much harder with his Fighting STAB, ending the niche of "Fire type with a Fight Move" Magmar had the first 2 gens.

Haven,t tried Magmar in Adv UU, but should be a lot better than in OU.
 

Oglemi

Borf
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Rock n Roll



Rock/Ground may be one of the worst typings but they certainly tried to make it work with this guy. Rhydon definitely saw major use in RBY and GSC with some use here and there in ADV, but even with an evolution it's been a rare sight in DPP-XY. What are some sets you guys like using with the rockin rhino? Is there a niche for it in the later gens?

 



Rhyno (Rhyperior) (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Solid Rock
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Rock Blast
- Roar
- Earthquake


Used to be really good in XY OU, but ORAS meta ruined it. Still, is a decent mixed wall that puts Rocks and checks some threats.

Still, a good switch-in to Torna-T ( especially to the LO set that doesn,t use Knock), Mega Diancie ( who will never 2HKO with neither Moonblast, nor Earth Power), Zard-X, Zapdos, Thundurus ( needs to hit 2 Focus Blasts or one boosted, unboosted HP Ice is 4HKO with LO), LO-less Bisharp, Talonflame ( burn hurts, though), Pinsir ( unless Adamant, it will never 2HKO with CC), Manectric (5HKO from HP Ice...) and Dragonite, among other threats.

People tend to underestimate Rhyperior's bulk, which leads things like Gengar, Alakazam, Volcarona and Nidoking to dying to it because they don,t OHKO it and expect to. The spread is even almost guarranted to survive a Scald from a +1 Suicune to Roar it away ( although if you resort to Rhyperior to stop a Cune sweep, you definetely have a problem).

Obviously, Rhyperior needs support to function, so checks to the miriad of water and grass types that switch to it are apreciated. And if Rhyperior is used on a bulky team where it needs to last longer, a Wisher like Alomomola, Clef or Chansey is required.

Other sets:
-AV with Max Attack and SDef. STABs, Ice Punch and Megahorn/Fire Punch as moves. Not a bad TR offensive Mon that checks a lot of things.
-The PDef set that is on site. I pesonaly don,t like it, but it checks better physical threats in exchange to be murdered by a lot of special ones.
-SD with STABs and Ice Punch. Needs a lot of Support, especially Paralisis, but can be devastating against slow teams.
-Band. Very prediction reliant, normally not worth it when Tar, Lando, Drill and Chomp exist.


Didn,t try Rhyperior in BW, probably has a niche, although a very small one.

In DPP the analysis on site is pretty accurate and reflects well the variety of sets Rhyperior has.

Everyone here probably know how good is Rhydon the first 3 gens, so my post pretty much ends here.
 

Plague von Karma

Banned deucer.
I really enjoy using Rhydon in Gens 1, 2 and 5. It's always had a use as a backup Pokemon for when Electric Types hamper your team just a little too much.

Spr_1g_112.png

Rhydon
- Body Slam
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- Substitute
Standard Rhydon set, employed as a counter to Zapdos and Jolteon primarily. It can also deal with a paralyzed Tauros in some scenarios, and even go toe to toe with a Snorlax if it isn't running the FishLax setup (which in recent times has been switched over to Blizzard, but generally it still kills Rhydon). It only gets better in Stadium where Substitutes actually function. However, it does have to compete with Golem which can explode, and that's immensely important in the Game Boy games where Substitute doesn't block Explosion. Generally, I opt for Golem on GB Teams and Rhydon in Stadium teams as a result. It's really player preference at the end of the day though.

Spr_2s_112.png

Rhydon
- Curse
- Roar
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
Moving into GSC, Rhydon became a bit worse, but at the same time a bit better. Raikou came to town to trump Zapdos as the Electric Type of choice, and it did make Rhydon a decent anti meta choice as a result. With Roar now part of its arsenal, it can act as a great phaser against the two of them. However, Hidden Power Water is more than enough to ruin its day, but not many players pack stuff for Rhydon. It really just suffers from a lot of competition, and since the metagame is pretty much solved it's difficult to find a place for it It's really fun when it gets going though.

Spr_5b_112_m.png

Rhydon @ Eviolite
Ability: Lightning Rod
EVs: 172 HP / 252 Atk / 84 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Megahorn
- Stone Edge
- Stealth Rock
With Eviolite under its belt in Gen 5, Rhydon is able to find a place among the Fighting Type infested metagame. It's had a very steep drop since Gens 1-2 though. Regardless, having 394 HP and 220-221 SpD isn't half bad. Really good, in fact. Fully invested in Atk means Rhydon will hit extremely hard. The set I have is quite flexible, as 84 EVs from HP can be put in Speed to hit Tangrowth with Megahorn. My main use with Rhydon in Gen 5 is usually to set Stealth Rock, switch in a Pokemon with Water Absorb (which is usually Lanturn or Quagsire in Gen 5 RU, Rhydon's tier) that can also take Ice hits, then bring it back in on an Electric Type and punish the switch heavily. It's hard to use, but in scenarios like I've outlined it's pretty fun.

Honestly, I think Rhyperior should have got a Mega Evolution to let it use that incredible Special Attacking Movepool. Maybe make it Rock/Steel, or something. Guess the early Gen 1 design philosophy (first 16 were designed with no type in mind, and given wide movepools...at least that's what the word is on Helix Chamber) didn't do it any favors. But I'm getting off track and should probably shut up, since I'm not actually good at this game :')
 
I really enjoy using Rhydon in Gens 1, 2 and 5. It's always had a use as a backup Pokemon for when Electric Types hamper your team just a little too much.

View attachment 139806
Rhydon
- Body Slam
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- Substitute
Standard Rhydon set, employed as a counter to Zapdos and Jolteon primarily. It can also deal with a paralyzed Tauros in some scenarios, and even go toe to toe with a Snorlax if it isn't running the FishLax setup (which in recent times has been switched over to Blizzard, but generally it still kills Rhydon). It only gets better in Stadium where Substitutes actually function. However, it does have to compete with Golem which can explode, and that's immensely important in the Game Boy games where Substitute doesn't block Explosion. Generally, I opt for Golem on GB Teams and Rhydon in Stadium teams as a result. It's really player preference at the end of the day though.

View attachment 139807
Rhydon
- Curse
- Roar
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
Moving into GSC, Rhydon became a bit worse, but at the same time a bit better. Raikou came to town to trump Zapdos as the Electric Type of choice, and it did make Rhydon a decent anti meta choice as a result. With Roar now part of its arsenal, it can act as a great phaser against the two of them. However, Hidden Power Water is more than enough to ruin its day, but not many players pack stuff for Rhydon. It really just suffers from a lot of competition, and since the metagame is pretty much solved it's difficult to find a place for it It's really fun when it gets going though.

View attachment 139808
Rhydon @ Eviolite
Ability: Lightning Rod
EVs: 172 HP / 252 Atk / 84 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Megahorn
- Stone Edge
- Stealth Rock
With Eviolite under its belt in Gen 5, Rhydon is able to find a place among the Fighting Type infested metagame. It's had a very steep drop since Gens 1-2 though. Regardless, having 394 HP and 220-221 SpD isn't half bad. Really good, in fact. Fully invested in Atk means Rhydon will hit extremely hard. The set I have is quite flexible, as 84 EVs from HP can be put in Speed to hit Tangrowth with Megahorn. My main use with Rhydon in Gen 5 is usually to set Stealth Rock, switch in a Pokemon with Water Absorb (which is usually Lanturn or Quagsire in Gen 5 RU, Rhydon's tier) that can also take Ice hits, then bring it back in on an Electric Type and punish the switch heavily. It's hard to use, but in scenarios like I've outlined it's pretty fun.

Honestly, I think Rhyperior should have got a Mega Evolution to let it use that incredible Special Attacking Movepool. Maybe make it Rock/Steel, or something. Guess the early Gen 1 design philosophy (first 16 were designed with no type in mind, and given wide movepools...at least that's what the word is on Helix Chamber) didn't do it any favors. But I'm getting off track and should probably shut up, since I'm not actually good at this game :')
To say Raikou trumps Zapdos as the Electric-type of choice in GSC is a misunderstanding at best.
 

Plague von Karma

Banned deucer.
To say Raikou trumps Zapdos as the Electric-type of choice in GSC is a misunderstanding at best.
It's really team preference. Roar is obviously the reason you'd use Raikou, and it does have the speed to be effective as a sweeper. If you have a different phaser (such as Rhydon here), then Zapdos is a superior choice for the team since you rely less on it and have more freedom on Electric Types.

I probably shouldn't be discussing things after not getting much sleep, forgive me.
 
ORAS OU

Rhyperior @ Leftovers
Ability: Solid Rock
EVs: 244 HP / 16 Atk / 248 Def
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge / Rock Blast
- Stealth Rock
- Ice Punch / Fire Punch / Toxic / Roar

Rhyperior is by no means a top tier pick in the ORAS OU metagame, but it does have some distinctive traits that allow it to put in some work from time to time. Titanic physical bulk along with Solid Rock allows it to check several of the tiers common Physical threats, even if they run super effective coverage like Earthquake, Close Combat, Ice Punch, etc, such as Mega Charizard X, Dragonite, un-boosted Excadrill, Talonflame, and Mega Pinsir. Depending on the coverage moves it can run, it can also dish out a surprisingly large amount of damage to Landorus-T and Garchomp if Rhyperior packs Ice Punch while Ferrothorn and Mega Scizor don't take Fire Punch well on the switch.

Rhyperior makes for an excellent Stealth Rock setter since it forces out hazard removers such as Zapdos, bulky Excadrill, and the rare Mandibuzz. The choice between Stone Edge and Rock Blast depends on whether you want power or accuracy and the ability to potentially hit through Substitute. In the last slot, if the coverage provided by Ice/Fire Punch isn't necessary, Toxic can be used to wear down common switch ins like Hippowdon, bulky Landorus-T, (Mega) Slowbro, Lati@s, Fat Garchomp, Tangrowth, and Rotom-W, while Roar can be used to phaze set up sweepers and Substitute users while shuffling the opposing team through your Stealth Rock. Megahorn is a YOLO option to remove weakened Tangrowth and (Mega) Slowbro.

Defensive bulk allows Rhyperior to eat a +2 Iron Head from Life Orb Bisharp. 244 HP hits 432, which is a Leftovers number. 16 Attack with an Adamant nature hits a jump point, and the rest goes in to Defense.
 
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Oglemi

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Rock n Roll v2



Speed is the name of the game right? Electrode has/had seen some use in DPP as part of the infamous Gliscor pass team(s), but hasn't seen much if any use in standard play apart from that. Can we find a niche for the fastest ball around?

 
RBY

Electrode
- Thunderbolt
- Hyper Beam
- Explosion
- Thunder Wave

Hoo boy, RBY Electrode is garbage. Having nothing but Electric STAB and Normal coverage backed by an awful Attack stat does this thing no favors. In every tier of RBY, you will find common Ground-types, Grass-types, and better fellow mono Electric-types that bully it wherever it appears, keeping it from making effective use of its STAB. Actually doing much besides attempting a trade with its mediocre Explosion is a tall order for it in RBY, and if a Rock/Ground-type (ANY Rock/Ground-type) makes an appearance you can kiss Electrode's usability goodbye. Even pre-Light Ball Pikachu can look more appealing than Electrode at times. Just use Zapdos or Jolteon. When you can't use those use Raichu or Electabuzz. When you can't use those, use Pokemon with Electric coverage alongside other moves. Then maybe once the good evolved Pokemon are gone and Little Cup Pokemon start making appearances, maybe think about using Electrode.


GSC

Electrode @ Leftovers / Pink Bow
- Thunder
- Hidden Power [Ice / Water / Fire / Grass] / Light Screen
- Explosion
- Reflect / Light Screen / Rest / Mirror Coat

I've dabbled with Electrode a while back in GSC OU, but never really got good at GSC so can't really speak to the viability of it. Hidden Power absolutely salvages the disaster that was RBY Electrode though now it can actually hit Ground-types and Grass-types super effectively. Not enough to make it viable in OU, but it's UU atleast and out of the trash bin. In the OU metagame, the only real niche it has over other Electric-types is the buffed Explosion to threaten would-be Thunder absorbers like Raikou or Snorlax. Looking at it with fresh eyes, it is the only Pokemon with the combination of Reflect + Light Screen + Explosion/Self-Destruct, so perhaps it could work alongside a Belly Drum user to supply it with both screens and a safe switch-in.

Edit: added Pink Bow as an alternative to Leftovers, it (and Polkadot Bow) boost up Explosion's power to the point you'll either heavily maim or kill any non-Resist. Might be worth exploring.
Pink Bow Electrode Explosion vs. Nidoking: 310-365 (84.9 - 100%) -- 82.1% chance to OHKO after Spikes and Leftovers recovery
Pink Bow Electrode Explosion vs. Raikou: 314-370 (81.9 - 96.6%) -- 61.5% chance to OHKO after Spikes and Leftovers recovery
Pink Bow Electrode Explosion vs. Blissey: 660-776 (92.5 - 108.8%) -- 53.8% chance to OHKO after Leftovers recovery
 
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electrode has a chance to deny lead zam twave and boom gives it something to fall back on compared to jolteon (who should probably switch)
 

Amaranth

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RBY Electrode can switch in on a sleep move to activate Sleep Clause.

Oh and I suppose it does an okay job at luring Rhydon in and hitting him with Toxic, which... is useful...
And then you can explode it. Explosion from Electrode doesn't even OHKO Alakazam.
It's one of very few mons to learn both Light Screen and Reflect, but even with a Light Screen / Reflect / Rest / Toxic type of set he's much more likely to die before it manages to toxic more than one mon. Electrode takes up to 51% from a Zam Psychic before Light Screen. And obviously that set is fodder for Tauros to come in and try his luck with crits. If I had to use it in a RBY OU team I'd probably run that set still, but really, being a sleep fodder is the best thing it can do.
 

Jorgen

World's Strongest Fairy
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GSC Electrode gets Screech and is the fastest Pokemon in the game. In other words, it runs a goofy, surprisingly dangerous gimmick really well:

Electrode @ Leftovers:
- screech
- swagger
- substitute
- thunder / explosion

Thunder lets you pose an honest threat against Skarms & the like so you can force em to switch and get your sub up. Chosen over Tbolt so you can maybe fish for para if they don't have a ground. Then you swagger whatever comes in, if they hit themselves, use Screech. Sub is what makes swagger not totally suicidal. Works best with Spikes to punish trying to switch around confusion & screech. Explosion over Thunder as a mix-up, trading being honest about your threats against Skarm & friends for the ability to take direct advantage of def drops & to salvage busted positions (i.e., Curselax at max atk so Swagger no longer works uh oh!)

Apart from that, a more traditional Explosion set still outspeeds Raikou, so it doesn't suffer "the gengar problem" as a bait for it.
 

Oglemi

Borf
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Riding high




An RBY OU mainstay, Lapras has seen little to no use outside of its home generation as its Ice typing became more and more of a hindrance. Can we find a niche for it after its best generation? Feel free to post your personal favorite 4th moveslot for RBY as well

 



Nessy (Lapras) (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
- Rest
- Perish Song
- Ice Beam
- Whirlpool

Uses Whirlpool and kills things with Perish Song. Needs paralisis and Spikes Support do achieve its goals. RoarKou ( and Raikou in general) stops it cold, but other phazers ( Skarmory, Rhydon and Steelix, ) take respectable damage from STAB Ice Beam. It is not outclassed by Misdreavus in this role, as the usual counters to Misdreavus ( Darks) can,t damage Lapras so much. Also, Lapras actually does hurt with that STAB Ice Beam.

Unfortunately Whirppol has low accuracy and Lapras shares type with the second most used Mon in GSC, Cloyster. However, it definetely has a niche and not a small one.


Nessy (Lapras) (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 184 SpA / 136 SpD / 188 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hydro Pump
- Thunder
- Ice Beam
- Rain Dance

Just a Disaster Area set. Hits quite hard and unlike Kingdra has STAB Ice Beam and Thunder. Pretty useless, but has a niche.



LapDance! (Lapras) (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Hydration
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD ( the EVs might be different and customizable)
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunder / Ice Beam / Surf/ Protect / Confuse Ray
- Block
- Perish Song
- Rest

BW is the best Lapras Gen after RBY. Now it has Hydration, which lets it use Rest and wape up the same turn if raining. Lapras also has Block now instead of the unreliable Whirlpool. It functions exactly like in GSC, but better. Thunder is for me the best 4th slot, just for Jellicent, who will switch-in and try to Taunt Lapras. IB and Surf are Stab options, Protect and Confuse Ray can Stall Perish Son Turns.

Still needs huge support, though ( Politoed, Spinner, switch-ins to Grass and Electric, etc.)

In BW, Lapras also has the posibility to run DD + Rest and Curse + Rest sets viably. However, they need even more support to succeed.



Nessy (Lapras) (M) @ Choice Specs
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 120 HP / 252 SpA / 136 Spe ( this Spread is the one I run in SM. In ORAS it should be pretty similar, with some variation to Speed)
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hydro Pump
- Freeze-Dry
- Ice Beam
- Hidden Power [Fire]

Lapras gained Freeze Dry in ORAS. This gives it a tiny niche in OU over Keldeo in damaging Slowbro, Jellicent, Azumarill, Starmie, Gyarados and Gastrodon with the same Move. While Lapras is one of the weakest users of the move ( only Mamoswine and Delibird have lower Special Attack stat) it is also the one with the best defensive typing, switching easily on opposing Scalds and healing instead of being burned. Some calcs:

252+ SpA Choice Specs Lapras Freeze-Dry vs. 252 HP / 24 SpD Slowbro: 330-390 (83.7 - 98.9%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Lapras Freeze-Dry vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Starmie: 324-384 (100 - 118.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Lapras Freeze-Dry vs. 252 HP / 144+ SpD Gastrodon: 516-612 (121.1 - 143.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Lapras Freeze-Dry vs. 88 HP / 0 SpD Gyarados: 568-672 (160.9 - 190.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Lapras Freeze-Dry vs. 240 HP / 16 SpD Assault Vest Azumarill: 222-264 (55.3 - 65.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Choice Specs Lapras Freeze-Dry vs. 172 HP / 0 SpD Azumarill: 338-402 (88 - 104.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Choice Specs Lapras Freeze-Dry vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Jellicent: 270-320 (66.9 - 79.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Lapras Freeze-Dry vs. 248 HP / 28 SpD Tentacruel: 236-278 (65 - 76.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Lapras Freeze-Dry vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Rotom-Wash: 266-314 (87.7 - 103.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Lapras Freeze-Dry vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Volcanion: 154-183 (50.9 - 60.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Choice Specs Lapras Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 84+ SpD Clefable: 202-238 (51.2 - 60.4%) -- 91.4% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Lapras Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Metagross-Mega: 204-241 (67.7 - 80%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Choice Specs Lapras Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 168 SpD Ferrothorn: 138-163 (39.2 - 46.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Lapras Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 168 SpD Ferrothorn: 248-292 (70.4 - 82.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Lapras Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Kyurem-Black: 198-234 (50.6 - 59.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

Still, a horrible Mon in this gen that usually is not worth it to have and needs Volturn and Spin/Defog support. However, with an interesting niche.
 

Oglemi

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Sporting a unique typing until Keldeo's release in BW and some of the best sprites ever, Poliwrath has always been an odd duck, with stats that are just not quite there to justify standard use in OU. Can we find a niche for the tadpole man, or is he doomed to irrelevancy forever?

 

Martin

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Poliwrath @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 248 HP / 216 Def / 44 SpD
Relaxed Nature
- Circle Throw
- Scald
- Rest
- Sleep Talk

Poliwrath is in a sorta awkward spot in ORAS OU because it’s a PHazer that loses to all relevant Bulk Up/CM users and a Water Absorb user that can’t actually consistently check any of the relevant Water-types; this, of course, begs the question of why you’d ever use it, and 99% of the time you might as well just bin it. However, it does have a small—and I really do mean small—niche in role compression.

One of the things that makes Water Absorb such a cool ability is that it makes Specs Keldeo stop to think before clicking Scald, and this allows you to generate momentum when paired with something that can take advantage of Secret Sword locks consistently; if you go to Poliwrath on Scald, you can disrupt their switches using Circle Throw, which is especially potent alongside Spikes. However, it’s worth keeping in mind that your treading on hot coals with Keldeo, as Specs Secret Sword deals a little under 50%, meaning that Poliwrath can’t stall with Rest. As for the EVs, they avoid the OHKO from Specs Focus Blast from Keldeo while still being able to take two Sacred Swords from full, and it runs 248 HP to get off of that horrible divisible-by-4 stat and, more importantly, to push the defense EVs up to a jump point. If you run Leftovers, drop 4 from SpD to hit the HP lefties number bc it’s still only max rolls that will kill anyway.

As for what role compression it achieves, Poliwrath’s overall bulk is similar ish to Keldeo’s, meaning that you can compress the role of RestTalk Keldeo into the Circle Throw pressure+Water Absorb niche by pretty much hard countering Weavile and Bisharp. Punishing their KOffs is the only reason Helmet is run.

This mon sucks tbh just use Keldeo, Starmie, Slowbro, Jellicent or even fucking Slowking instead.
 
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Why does this Mon has so amazing Sprites and is usable every single Gen?





PoliCorrupto (Poliwrath)
Ability: Water Absorb
- Blizzard
- Amnesia
- Surf
- Submission

Other Options:
-Hypnosis ( sucks, but Sleep is broken, hard to put it tho)
- Ice Beam (weak, but more PPs and accuracy),
-Hydro Pump. Guaranteed 2HKO to Alakazam at +2 if it doesn,t miss, guaranteed OHKO at +6 if someone is dumb enough to let you set-up to that point. Guaranteed 2HKO to Snorlax at +2 (neither Submission nor +2 Surf reach so) and OHKO at +6. Same thing for Gengar. Guaranteed 2HKO at +6 to Chansey (with Reflect, Chansey actually walls Submission unless it crits). High chance to OHKO Jynx at +4. High Chance to 2HKO Starmie at +4 (you still lose to it like 99% of times). And thats it I think, Surf is still better most of the times but extra power might be handy.
-Earthquake. Just for Jolteon and Gengar that switch directly to Poliwrath... so, not good.
-Body Slam. You almost never win Starmie, but at least with this you can hope to Paralize it.
-Psychic is bad. Never use it (Hydro does more damage to Gengar, and Blizzard to Grass Mons).

So, Poliwrath is a very niche mixed Amnesia Sweeper in OU. It threatens Normals and Rocks, and can also damage Egg and Zapdos with Blizzard. It also can win against paralized Alakazam, Jynx and more niche in OU Mons such as Lapras, Articuno and Moltres. Unlike Slowbro, it speedties with Victreebel, so he can actually win against it without needing paralisis support. However, unlike Slowbro, it does not resist Psychic. It loses BADLY to Starmie, loses to opposing Slowbro too (unless running hypnosis), and can,t never OHKO Gengar at +2 (Slowbro sometimes can if it uses Psychic), reveiving more damage from both TBolt and Explosion.
This means it needs huge support so succeed. TBolt Chansey is good for dealing with Starmie and critting Slowbro. Electrics in general work fine with Poliwrath, as well as grass Types (Egg checks Gengar, Vic or the also niche Venu deal with Slowbro and somewhat Starmie). Rhydon is also a good partner, because it atracts Starmie, at least when the oponnent doesn,t have an Egg (I heard more and more people started to drop Egg these days) and can paralyze and weak it. At the same time, Rhydon counters the electrics, that always treaten Poli with their high crit ratio even when he has already used an Amnesia.

In the end, Poliwrath can be a powerful sweeper, especially against no-Starmie teams, but needs a lot of support to put work. If given said support, it will be helpful for your team... but what won,t?



PoliCorrupto (Poliwrath) @ Leftovers
Ability: None
- Belly Drum
-3 of Return, Body Slam, Earthquake, Hidden Power Ghost, Hidden Power Rock, Hidden Power Fight, Submission, Hydropump, Lovely Kiss.

Poliwrath is the second fastest Belly Drumm sweeper in GSC. And with his movepool, he can win against every single OU Mon provided he has the adequate move and some of them are paralized beforehand (see Raikou, Zapdos and Gengar). The issue is that no matter what moves it has, there will always be some Mon that walls it completely, a severy 4 slot sindrome. So, like in RBY it needs huge support to work properly and like RBY, his typing has some serious defensive problems ( Electrics are everywhere). At least, now he has a better Sleep move if it can fit it somewhere. Probably a better drummer than Clefable, worse than Charizard (speedties with Zapdos, deals more damage to Skarm) and Quagsire (much better defensive typing at the cost of having more issues against Cloyster and Egg due to its pathetic speed) and far worse than Snorlax. Still, a cool mon to give a try.
Note: Hidden Power Ghost at +6 OHKOs almost always Egg, so Hidden Power Bug is not needed on this Mon unless you really fear Meganium.




PoliCorrupto (Poliwrath) (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Substitute
- Toxic
- Focus Punch
- Hidden Power [Ghost]

Not a bad Sub-Puncher with Spikes support, as it had perfect coverage and enters easily in Tyranitar and Suicune due to his typing and ability. There are better options, of course, but it still has a niche. Apart from Spikes ( and Spinblocker) it needs Dugtrio, because Celebi is a pain to deal with otherwise. There are better options than Poliwrath in Advance, but it definetely has a niche.

Other options: Salac Berry + Belly Drum can work against some teams, as well as Belly Drum with Agility Pass support.




PoliCorrupto (Poliwrath) (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Waterfall
- Bulk Up
- Rest
- Sleep Talk

Poliwrath is definetely at its worst in DPP, its niche is very small here. He can sweep late game against some teams while checking pretty well Tyranitar, Infernape and Heatran, among other things but almost always there will be a better option.

Other options: Belly Drum + Salac Berry or Agilypass Support. Poliwrath has great sinergy with both Zapdos and Gliscor.



The ORAS set that Martin posted works in BW too (with some EV variatons and Leftovers as a possible item). He can check well Lando, Tar, Tran and some Jirachi and Keldeo sets. Spikes are at their prime moment in BW with Ferrothorn and Skarmory being amazing at it and Defog being still non-existant. On the other hand, Sleep mechanic of that generation hurts Poliwrath a lot. However, its one of the very few mons capable of using a Restalk Strategy due to Circe Throw, which phazes out what would be counters. Spinners are another problem, Starmie and especially Tentacruel in Rain enter easily in Poliwrath while the main Spinblocker of BW ( Jellicent) both walls Poli and has horrible sinergy with him. Gengar and the niche Spiritomb, Sableye and Cofagrigus have better sinergy, but struggle against both Starmie and Tentacruel ( except Spiritomb, which can actually beat Starmie).

In the end, it happens like in other Gens, Poliwrath needs support, but still can pull its weight.

Other Options: https://pokepast.es/5478d548410c2ad3 Very unreliable, but can sometimes work to completely troll Rain Teams while you use other weather such as Sand.



Nothing to add in regard of the Standart Restalk Poliwrath, Martin already explained it pretty well. However, it still has another reliable option, at least in theory (didn't test it in practice, but works in SM).

PoliCorrupto (Poliwrath) (M) @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Belly Drum
- Waterfall
- Return
- Ice Punch/ Earthquake / Brick Break

If it manages to boost in Rain and there are enough Rain Turns left, it murders whole teams. Its better in SM than in ORAS due to some meta trends (Greninja being back in OU, Pelipper being better than Politoed as a Rain setter, Mega Slowbro and PDef Tangrowth being much rarer than in ORAS less Sand and Zard-Y, etc.), but still could work in ORAS too.
Waterfall + Return offer almost perfect neutral coverage (being Ferro, Empoleon and Shedinja the exceptions). The last move depends on what you want to kill: Ice Punch probably is the best option, as it OHKOs Defensive Mega Latias, Defensive Mega Altaria, Amoonguss and has a chance to kill after Rocks PDef Tangrowth. Earthquake is almost only for Jellicent. It doesn,t OHKO it if it has full health and max Defense, but leaves it very weak. Brick Break is only for Ferrothorn, it obviously kills it.
Mega and Regular Slowbro completely wall Poliwrath even at +6 ( they need to have a Psychic move to kill it, though). Starmie doesn,t and Slowking almost always dies at +6 Return. Don,t set up if the oponnent still has a Mega Alakazam or a non-Megaevolved Gardevoir, they will Trace the Swift Swim and easily kill Poliwrath. Unaware Clef and Quagsire also wall Poliwrath, although if you flinch them twice, you still win. Other than that, Poliwrath kills almost all the Meta if the oponnent lets it boost himself. Volturn support (such as Jirachi, which atracts Tran, Lando, Gliscor and Scizor) helps a lot to boost Poliwrath.

Hope you read all the post and now use more Poliwrath :psywoke:
 

Amaranth

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Poliwrath
- Amnesia
- Hypnosis
- Hydro Pump
- Blizzard / Submission

Poliwrath is actually pretty decent as a sleeper in RBY, he can muscle through paralyzed Starmie or Alakazam if you can correctly Amnesia on their switch-in (but you need to run Hydro Pump to hit the ranges to do this, which is why I think it's 100% superior to Surf in OU) and then put something to sleep once the sleep blocker has been pumped down. The last coverage move is a toss-up between Blizzard (hits Exeggutor, Zapdos) or Submission (hits Chansey, Lapras). Shaky stats, typing, and accuracy make Poliwrath very much a gamble, but it does have potential to create huge breaks in your opponent's team; unfortunately due to needing Amnesia and Hypnosis pretty badly you don't have space to get all the coverage that you would want, but you can sleep things that wall you and take it slow.
I don't think there's a reason to use Poliwrath other than for the novelty of it, but it can win games against competent players if piloted well
 
In RBY Poliwrath can get amnesia, along with an array of special moves that can provide good coverage against the opposing team. He can also get hypnosis. It allows for the strategy of either putting your opponent to sleep with hypnosis or bring Poliwrath in on an already slept mon and have him start immediately setting up amnesia. With surf/bliz/psychic he has good coverage. If unchecked he can definitely be a threat, especially to sweep in the endgame.

A common set might be...
Hypnosis
Amnesia
Blizzard
Psychic

Or if you are don't want to rely on an inconsistent hypnosis to sleep and you want a bit more coverage...
Amnesia
Surf
Blizzard
Psychic

Maybe you could add body slam in there instead of surf to fish for para's on certain switch ins.

Poilwrath's niche in RBY would seem to be a surprise late game sweeper, setting up amnesia and wrecking havoc. Kind of like a poor man's slowbro, but he is faster than slowbro.
 

Mr.E

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Poliwrath was on my first Pearl team that I used in OST1. I needed coverage for, like, Gyarados and shit and it was surprisingly decent.
 

Hipmonlee

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Poli is massively underrated in RBY. It's the best pokemon at forcing a sleep when up against a paralysed Chansey (maybe some competition from Vic).

Plus it has so much versatility. Counter is a great way to get a big damage hit on psychics. For Mie and Zam a counter of basically anything + a hyper beam is a KO. And it has the threat of Amnesia. If you are only ever using Amnesia on Poliwrath then you're losing a lot of potential, the strength is that your opponent doesnt know what set you're running.

So try:
Hypnosis
Submission
Counter
Hyperbeam
 

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