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Mantine @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 248 HP / 136 Def / 124 SpD
Calm Nature
- Roost
- Scald
- Toxic
- Defog
Gliscor @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 244 HP / 56 Atk / 192 SpD / 16 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Toxic
- Defog
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
These 3 can make a good core. When I tryed using double defog, pysical fire types were a big trouble,
and I usualy fixed them with Lando-T. Now with Gliscor, it adds a 3rd defog and a good Toxic setter.
Im sure, Shedinja will rise a little bit. Not OU, probably RU. The meta would have much less hazards.
Its ability to force switch-ins and to cripple physical attackers with Will-O-Wisp will be good for Stall.
I can see stall using it, but not much.
Sorry for the short post, but all this talk about Naganadel's special attacking capabilities and it's extremely hard to wall coverage remind me a lot of Gen 5 Hydreigon.
Anyone else see the similarities? Just thought this would be fun to point out.
- Tyranitar will get more common and AV will probably be a thing
- Lando will still be common af with Scarf variants being more frequent due to being able to outspeed Naganadel before a Beast Boost and the other UB's (they're all weak to Ground lol)
- SpD Tran could make a comeback to handle Naganadel and could be a common SR user
- SG or even TR Magearna will annoy people if it goes Focus Blast + Ice Beam + Thunderbolt. Probably gonna end up that surprise mon that'll sweep you.
- Zeraora seems cool but it's likely an event mon so we won't get it for a while. Work Up and LO sets should be fun
- Naganadel looks annoying (both NP and Specs sets) but Tyranitar and Heatran can handle it. Revenge killing actually looks annoying if it gets a speed boost, because base 121 speed means you need Scarf Protean Greninja and faster to outspeed.
- Blacephalon and Assembly are overhyped but Blacephalon with a Speed Boost from Beast Boost looks dangerous once Tyranitar (if they have it) goes down. The berry point someone above brought out looks cool since you could go Sub + Mind Blown with a Salac Berry and then have Beast Boost give a +SpA boost.
- Moveset changes don't look too big aside from Defog users (especially Gliscor) and Knock Off on Pex I guess. Guess we'll have to wait and see what works and what doesn't.
Also, y'all need to quit posting one liners and shitposts unless it's a question or reply because if ain't contributing to the discussion and if a mod is probably gonna delete it, then save yourself some time and don't post.
big clown would do great on specs and scarf with overheat/shadow ball/trick/fourth move. psychic seems pretty useless outside of full spdef pex. With sub, calm mind and taunt it could make a great stallbreaker.
big bee is borderline busted. NP dragonium is insane. near perfect coverage, doubled SpA, strong z move, great SpA and Speed, and speed boosts with every kill. Hard to deal with without AV tar, SpDef tran, 121+ speed scarfers or strong priority. Specs and scarf are great too. strong, good coverage, u turn to pivot out on checks, beast boost, you can even run specs hp ground lure heatran.
electro lion could be good or bad. super sonic speed, great movepool but isnt insanely strong and checks koko. This mons future depends on where the meta goes but it could adapt fairly well.
defoggers are for the most part pretty good. scarf landorus or defensive landorus on a team with another rocker and a need for a defogger. rotom and gliscor will end up good again. serp and koko are who i am most excited for since both mons are great at forcing switches.
knock off toxapex is a big no-no. kart will be cool i guess.
av or rocks ttar and SpDef heatran will rise with big clown and big bee and both can run rocks, giving landorus a good reason to run defog.
specs hp fighting is a decent option big clown if ttar gets huge. this mon would do great on specs and scarf with overheat/shadow ball/trick/fourth move. psychic seems pretty useless outside of full spdef pex. With sub, calm mind and taunt it could make a great stallbreaker.
252 SpA Choice Specs Chandelure Hidden Power Fighting vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Tyranitar in Sand: 292-348 (85.6 - 102%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Chandelure Hidden Power Fighting vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Tyranitar in Sand: 292-348 (72.2 - 86.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Chandelure Hidden Power Fighting vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Tyranitar in Sand: 155-172 (35.6 - 42.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Chandelure Hidden Power Fighting vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Tyranitar in Sand: 144-172 (35.6 - 42.5%) -- 82.8% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and 1 layer of Spikes (With all these defoggers this will be hard to do)
big bee is busted. NP dragonium is insane. near perfect coverage, doubled SpA, great SpA and Speed, and speed boosts with every kill. Hard to deal with without AV tar, SpDef tran, 121+ speed scarfers or strong priority. Specs and scarf are great too. strong, good coverage, u turn to pivot out on checks, beast boost, you can even run specs hp ground lure heatran.
electro lion could be good or bad. super sonic speed, great movepool but isnt insanely strong and checks koko. This mons future depends on where the meta goes but it could adapt fairly well.
defoggers are for the most part pretty good. scarf landorus or defensive landorus on a team with another rocker and a need for a defogger. rotom and gliscor will end up good again. serp and koko are who i am most excited for since both mons are great at forcing switches.
knock off toxapex is a big no-no. kart will be cool i guess.
av or rocks ttar and SpDef heatran will rise with big clown and big bee and both can run rocks, giving landorus a good reason to run defog.
As far as we know, none of the Ultra Beasts or legendaries can get Hidden Power Fighting, because they have a minimum of 3 perfect IVs and HP Fighting requires at least 4 even IVs.
Gonna leave a list of what I think might happen:
- Blacephalon and Assembly are overhyped but Blacephalon with a Speed Boost from Beast Boost looks dangerous once Tyranitar (if they have it) goes down. The berry point someone above brought out looks cool since you could go Sub + Mind Blown with a Salac Berry and then have Beast Boost give a +SpA boost.
I might be wrong on this, but Timid Clown hits 344 Speed, which is 6 points above un-invested SpA, meaning you'd have to run 20 SpA EV's at most if you wanted a Speed boost from Beast Boost
specs hp fighting is a decent option big clown if ttar gets huge. this mon would do great on specs and scarf with overheat/shadow ball/trick/fourth move. psychic seems pretty useless outside of full spdef pex. With sub, calm mind and taunt it could make a great stallbreaker.
The more i think about naganadel the less worried about it I become. While i believe it will be a top tier threat that will need to be prepped for, i don't think it is as big of a threat as people are making it out to be. Setting up on anything that isn't like a toxapex is rather difficult. Because it's so frail, anything that could be scared out via it's typing can simply stay in as a sack to prevent it from setting up.
Edit: weather abusers like kingdra and excadrill can also revenge kill it
I agree with most of your post but any reason why you think this? I feel like Toxapex will really enjoy the utility of Knock Off honestly. It allows it to take on Choice Specs Ash-Greninja way more reliably, allowing it to avoid losing the matchup if it gets flinched by Dark Pulse. Furthermore, it has more utility in removing items such as Choice Scarf and Assault Vest from Magnezone, Choice Specs from Tapu Lele, and non-Z Crystals from Tapu Koko as they switch in, hence making it even more difficult for offensive teams to punish.
The only real drawback I see is that it's strapped for movesets, but if you don't need Haze for the likes of Volcarona you can easily drop it and replace it with Knock Off as a luxury of sorts. You can even give up Toxic Spikes if you don't need it.
Idt people are realising that it's going to be pretty hard for Neganadel to get a np boost at all with that kind of bulk. Dragon/Poison is ok defensively but that bulk is so bad it doesn't even matter. It lacks initial power and it can easily be revenge killed unless it gets the beast boost - which considering the wanting initial power and bulk isn't easy to get off without the unlikely np boost. It's going to be p decent but people are overhyping it way too much. And people are saying it could get banned lol. I think specs or scarf might be better on it tbh, np is just too hard to get off.
Burst can run an actually good scarf set. The dual STABs are great, Smack down actually does enough to r kill volcarona with some chip and it gets trick too. I like the idea of it.
Seriously, people are acting like Neganadel is gonna be god. It'll be great for sure but people here are saying it could be banned but that imo is overhyping it. The meta will adapt and it won't be broken.
As for that electric mon (honestly should've been elec/fighting with iron fist hmph) IDK how it'll fare. It's just really... weak. Like, don't get me wrong, it's not that weak but I mean, it's still pretty weak. Koko + it would be nice but they have almost no defensive offerings to give. I think it might be ok. Time will tell.
I'm just gonna watch as people use Physical koko since now it has thunder punch. I doubt it'll be good. The physical movepool is still shallow af. I guess it can surprise some checks and hte sort ig.
Why are people treating NegaSonicPurpleDragon like it's Sharpedo levels of frail and is RK'd by anything/everything? Poison/Dragon is a fantastic defensive typing, and yes being weak to Ground and Psychic sucks but the added resistances are super solid. With 0 investment defensively, you live stuff like Mega Diance's Moonblast or Diamond Storm, Scarf Lele's Moonblast, Banded Tyranitar's Pursuit, Specs Koko's Dazzling Gleam (even after Rocks), Scarf Greninja's Ice Beam, and Banded Weavile's Ice Shard. Yes, most of those are close i.e. you don't want Sand/Hazards to be up but with the increase in Defoggers, that's not really an issue, and Psychic/Ground/Dragon all have immunities/resistances (Celesteela alone covers those).
I agree that people are hyping Naganadel by calling it broken right out of the gate, but you’ve got to remember that it’s surprisingly hard to revenge kill because of Beast Boost. Nasty Plot Dragonium Z gets to +2 on something passive and drops a nuke, then suddenly it gets a speed boost, meaning without priority it takes a 122+ speed Scarfer to outspeed and revenge it, which is why you can’t just slap a Scarf Lando-T on your team and call it a day. Fortunately it’s so frail that priority is going to do a lot to it, but yeah, counterplay is more limited than you’d think.
People are saying Tapu Fini is done, Tapu Fini is dead, Tapu Fini is gone and I'm thinking: Misty Terrain halves power of Dragon moves. So, maybe play your Fini well to keep Misty Terrain up to support your TTar and your Tran in tanking that +2 Z-Draco Meteor from Naganadel. Just a thought...
Seriously though, Naganadel isn't over-hyped. You can't overhype something that have the coverage and power to KO the entire tier and can't be revenge killed outside of one scarfer (Gren) and a decent at best priority user (Weavile). Need I mention that both of these revenge killers are fodder for Shift Gear Magearna, SD MegaZor, Mega mawile, and probably more? This thing at the least will wreck OU and be suspect worthy.
Gonna sum up a lot of set ideas from around the fourms for both; Naganadel, here, and Blacephalon, in a later post, with a few of my own ideas. These are the last two I havnt covered and arguably going to be the most viable out the 5 new pokemon usable in Ou.
First off, we have the set that everyones been hyped about, and its understandable why. With access to Nasty Plot and Dragon, Poison stab with Fire coverage, hitting all of the Ou meta bar Heatran for at least neutral, this thing can get very scary, very quickly. When it finds opportunities to Nasty Plot up on forced switches or weaker Pokemon, it can destroy one Pokemon with a disgustingly strong Devastating Drake off Draco Meteor, which can even overwhelm offensive or weakened Heatran for the Ko and still be left at +2 Spatk, but also with a +1 in speed from Beast Boost, vastly reducing the amount of Pokemon that can revenge kill. This allows it to dismantle more offensive builds if they don't pack anything to live a hit or force another Draco. Nasty Plot not only makes it a threat to offensive builds, but also fatter builds, as if you get to +4 you have 80% chance of Ko'ing Chansey after Sr damage, meaning that little is safe. I imagine its main weakness will be finding opportunities to set up, as with the knowledge of it getting a Nasty Plot up and winning I think it will force a lot of mons just to stay in and attack. With Ou's high standards, theres not many Pokemon that wont leave it in range of some form of priority (Calcs in Green for some examples). Though this obviously being a double edged sword, it still limits Naganadel potential. Another problem it could face is the baiting out of its Z-move, as it is reliant on it for break specific threats such as Heatran and Toxapex. Though once again it is another prediction based flaw, as you could easily Nasty Plot again on the bait, but this does leave reduce the chance of sweeping the more 50/50s involved. Lastly problem it might face is that some mons will force the Draco Meteor after the moves been expended, which results in the loss of Spatk boost, interrupting or stopping the sweep and potentially losing you set up opportunity.
The choice between Fire Blast and Flamethrower is optional. Flamethrower is more reliable when at +2, but Fire Blast can pick up some interesting Ohkoes pre boost (Calcs down below in Yellow). Shoutouts to ChrystalFalchion for the Flamethrower Vs Fire Blast Calcs posted here
+2 252 SpA Dragalge Devastating Drake (195 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Heatran: 297-349 (91.9 - 108%) -- 50% chance to OHKO
+2 252 SpA Dragalge Devastating Drake (195 BP) vs. 212 HP / 0 SpD Heatran: 297-351 (78.9 - 93.3%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252 SpA Dragalge Devastating Drake (195 BP) vs. 248 HP / 220+ SpD Heatran: 222-261 (57.6 - 67.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
+2 252 SpA Dragalge Devastating Drake (195 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Toxapex: 351-414 (115.4 - 136.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+4 252 SpA Dragalge Devastating Drake (195 BP) vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Eviolite Chansey: 595-702 (84.6 - 99.8%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252 SpA Dragalge Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Heatran: 198-233 (61.3 - 72.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252 SpA Dragalge Draco Meteor vs. 212 HP / 0 SpD Heatran: 198-234 (52.6 - 62.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
+2 252 SpA Dragalge Draco Meteor vs. 248 HP / 220+ SpD Heatran: 148-174 (38.4 - 45.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
+2 252 SpA Dragalge Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Toxapex: 235-277 (77.3 - 91.1%) -- 25% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252 SpA Dragalge Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Tyranitar in Sand: 279-328 (81.8 - 96.1%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252 SpA Dragalge Draco Meteor vs. 248 HP / 156+ SpD Venusaur-Mega: 285-336 (78.5 - 92.5%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252 SpA Dragalge Sludge Wave vs. 252 HP / 228+ SpD Assault Vest Tangrowth: 456-536 (112.8 - 132.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 SpA Dragalge Sludge Wave vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Keldeo: 331-391 (102.4 - 121%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 SpA Dragalge Sludge Wave vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Latios: 280-331 (93 - 109.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Dragalge Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 168 SpD Ferrothorn: 360-428 (102.2 - 121.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Dragalge Flamethrower vs. 252 HP / 168 SpD Ferrothorn: 296-352 (84 - 100%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
+2 252 SpA Dragalge Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 168 SpD Ferrothorn: 720-848 (204.5 - 240.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 SpA Dragalge Flamethrower vs. 252 HP / 168 SpD Ferrothorn: 588-696 (167 - 197.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
52 SpA Dragalge Flamethrower vs. 200 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Magearna: 86-102 (24.5 - 29%) -- 99.1% chance to 4HKO
252 SpA Dragalge Fire Blast vs. 200 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Magearna: 104-124 (29.6 - 35.3%) -- 17.8% chance to 3HKO
+2 252 SpA Dragalge Fire Blast vs. 200 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Magearna: 206-244 (58.6 - 69.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252 SpA Dragalge Flamethrower vs. 200 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Magearna: 170-200 (48.4 - 56.9%) -- 91.8% chance to 2HKO
252 SpA Dragalge Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 124 SpD Celesteela: 208-246 (52.2 - 61.8%) -- 98.4% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Dragalge Flamethrower vs. 252 HP / 124 SpD Celesteela: 170-202 (42.7 - 50.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252 SpA Dragalge Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 124 SpD Celesteela: 414-488 (104 - 122.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 SpA Dragalge Flamethrower vs. 252 HP / 124 SpD Celesteela: 340-400 (85.4 - 100.5%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
+2 252 SpA Dragalge Flamethrower vs. 252 HP / 124 SpD Celesteela: 340-400 (85.4 - 100.5%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Dragalge Fire Blast vs. 40 HP / 0 SpD Mawile-Mega: 248-292 (98.8 - 116.3%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Dragalge Flamethrower vs. 40 HP / 0 SpD Mawile-Mega: 204-240 (81.2 - 95.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Dragalge Flamethrower vs. 40 HP / 0 SpD Mawile-Mega: 204-240 (81.2 - 95.6%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Dragalge Fire Blast vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Skarmory: 314-370 (94.2 - 111.1%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Dragalge Flamethrower vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Skarmory: 256-302 (76.8 - 90.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 Atk Celesteela Heavy Slam (120 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Dragalge: 169-199 (58.8 - 69.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Choice Specs is an interesting set, as I feel it capitalises well on the immediate threat from a Nasty Plot set and either nail an obvious switch-in or pick off a mon trying to stay in and weaken Naganadel. Naganadel also now has an extra move slot which allows it to be more customisable along with the Ev spread, fufilling slightly different roles and picking off certain threats. Hp Ground can nail Heatran switchins, U-turn can pick up momentum off other bulky threats trying to come in and Dragon Pulse can work to ease cleaning. Thunderbolt is there to hit bulky waters such as Toxapex. I thought Sludge Bomb to be better than Sludge Wave due to the higher poison chance, improving in its ability to weaken the opponents team, as the job of a wallbreaker. The first spread allows Naganadel to boost its Spatk on a Ko, increasing its ability to tear apart slower fatter teams. This spread hits 352 speed, which is just above the base 110 speed tier. The second Ev spread boosts its speed on a Ko, making it harder to revenge kill, allowing it to both break and then clean more offensive teams, speed tie with Tornadus-T and bluff a Nasty Plot set better. I think both sets can work well fulfilling slightly different roles depending on which options you take, being a momentum grabber, cleaner, etc. though I do believe them both to be inferior to its Nasty Plot Z-Draco set. However with the loss of Nasty Plot, it does leave you open to now being walled by mons such as Chansey and Toxapex or Heatran depending on coverage. An option for either of these could be LO, allowing it to switch up moves to hit the relevant target easing end game cleaning, however I believe the loss in power and the damage you take from LO to be less optimal.
252 SpA Choice Specs Dragalge Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Heatran: 148-174 (45.8 - 53.8%) -- 47.7% chance to 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Dragalge Draco Meteor vs. 212 HP / 0 SpD Heatran: 148-175 (39.3 - 46.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Dragalge Draco Meteor vs. 248 HP / 220+ SpD Heatran: 111-131 (28.8 - 34%) -- 98.8% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Dragalge Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Toxapex: 177-208 (58.2 - 68.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
-2 252 SpA Choice Specs Dragalge Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Toxapex: 88-105 (28.9 - 34.5%) -- 99.6% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Dragalge Draco Meteor vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Eviolite Chansey: 199-235 (28.3 - 33.4%) -- 0% chance to 3HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Dragalge Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Tyranitar in Sand: 208-246 (60.9 - 72.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
-2 252 SpA Choice Specs Dragalge Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Tyranitar in Sand: 105-124 (30.7 - 36.3%) -- 58.8% chance to 3HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Dragalge Draco Meteor vs. 248 HP / 156+ SpD Venusaur-Mega: 213-252 (58.6 - 69.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Dragalge Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 24 SpD Landorus-Therian: 364-430 (95.2 - 112.5%) -- 75% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Dragalge Sludge Bomb vs. 252 HP / 228+ SpD Assault Vest Tangrowth: 320-380 (79.2 - 94%) -- 50% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Choice Specs Dragalge Sludge Bomb vs. 240 HP / 0 SpD Mew: 217-256 (54.1 - 63.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Dragalge Sludge Bomb vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Keldeo: 237-279 (73.3 - 86.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Dragalge Flamethrower vs. 252 HP / 168 SpD Ferrothorn: 444-524 (126.1 - 148.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Dragalge Flamethrower vs. 200 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Magearna: 126-150 (35.8 - 42.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Dragalge Fire Blast vs. 200 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Magearna: 156-184 (44.4 - 52.4%) -- 76.6% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Choice Specs Dragalge Flamethrower vs. 252 HP / 124 SpD Celesteela: 254-300 (63.8 - 75.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Dragalge Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 124 SpD Celesteela: 310-366 (77.8 - 91.9%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Choice Specs Dragalge Flamethrower vs. 40 HP / 0 SpD Mawile-Mega: 302-356 (120.3 - 141.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Dragalge Flamethrower vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Skarmory: 384-452 (115.3 - 135.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Dragalge Hidden Power Ground vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Heatran: 368-436 (113.9 - 134.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Dragalge Hidden Power Ground vs. 212 HP / 0 SpD Heatran: 368-436 (97.8 - 115.9%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Dragalge Hidden Power Ground vs. 248 HP / 220+ SpD Heatran: 276-328 (71.6 - 85.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Dragalge Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Toxapex: 162-192 (53.2 - 63.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Lastly is the Choice Scarf set which can both revevnge kill and clean due to the snowballing nature of beast boost. I think this is the weakest of the 3 sets as it loses a lot of power and doesn't make use of its ridiculous coverage. However with its loss in power, it gains an ability to pick up momentum with U-turn more easily or clean up the opposing team with the instant speed boost from Scarf and nice speed tier. Its speed tier allows it to outpace +1 base 110s, M.Swampert in rain, whether Jolly or Adamant, +2 base 80s neutral nature and +2 Magearna and can revenge all or dent all of them significantly. The spread is the same as above allowing it to boost its Spatk on a Ko. U-Turn is ran if you want to pick up momentum for your team while Dragon Pulse is used for an easier time cleaning. Despite the loss of Specs, Hp Ground is still an option to hurt Heatran on the switch, 2hkoing all variants after Stealth Rock damage. I think Fire Blast will be the better option patching up for the loss of power somewhat though Flamethrower is still an option due to the better accuracy.
252 SpA Dragalge Draco Meteor vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Gengar: 265-313 (101.1 - 119.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Dragalge Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Keldeo: 228-268 (70.5 - 82.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Dragalge Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Swampert-Mega: 193-228 (56.5 - 66.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Dragalge Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Multiscale Dragonite: 210-247 (65 - 76.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Dragalge Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Magearna: 210-248 (69.7 - 82.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Dragalge Fire Blast vs. 200 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Magearna: 104-124 (29.6 - 35.3%) -- 17.8% chance to 3HKO
252 SpA Dragalge Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 124 SpD Celesteela: 208-246 (52.2 - 61.8%) -- 98.4% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Dragalge Fire Blast vs. 40 HP / 0 SpD Mawile-Mega: 248-292 (98.8 - 116.3%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Dragalge Dragon Pulse vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Latios: 254-300 (84.3 - 99.6%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Dragalge Hidden Power Ground vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Heatran: 248-292 (76.7 - 90.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Dragalge Hidden Power Ground vs. 212 HP / 0 SpD Heatran: 248-292 (65.9 - 77.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Dragalge Hidden Power Ground vs. 248 HP / 220+ SpD Heatran: 184-220 (47.7 - 57.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
Final Thoughts
I believe this is gonna be the most viable out the 5 new mons available in Ou and is going to be high A+ rank due to its insane coverage. Im not 100% sure on a suspect until its been used in the meta, but looking at it now, I wouldn't be surprised if it did get one later. This is all speculation obviously, and a lot of the thoughts have been heavily influenced by the current meta.
Also gonna use this as an oppotunity to link posts in Orange Islands where I've already given my OU thoughts:
I think Zeraora can be a very interesting mon. It can function as a mon similar to banded zygard but more powerful and faster at the expense of bulk. It has better move coverage than Zygarde. (Zygarde does have a move that never misses tho, thousand arrows.)
Anyways, back to Zeraora. It can run plasma fists (100 bp), Fire punch, Superpower, Knock off/Iron tail. Running adamant banded will make this mon a machine killer. Run the calcs. Little will be able to switch in.
This pretty much allows it to hit almost everything in the meta game quite hard. It will struggle vs landos tho.
I think Zeraora can be a very interesting mon. It can function as a mon similar to banded zygard but more powerful and faster at the expense of bulk. It has better move coverage than Zygarde. (Zygarde does have a move that never misses tho, thousand arrows.)
Anyways, back to Zeraora. It can run plasma fists (100 bp), Fire punch, Superpower, Knock off/Iron tail. Running adamant banded will make this mon a machine killer. Run the calcs. Little will be able to switch in.
This pretty much allows it to hit almost everything in the meta game quite hard. It will struggle vs landos tho.
Don't run adamant. Its the one thing it DOES have going for it: Its ridiculous speed, allowing it to outspeed koko and mega lopunny. Besides that fact i feel like running life orb with hp ice is a better set in OU, because otherwise lando walls it to hell and back.
Just thought of another "kind of" revenge killer for Naganadel. A viable mon so it's sth guess.
Mimikyu @ Life Orb
Ability: Disguise
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Shadow Sneak
- Play Rough
- Shadow Claw
If Disguise is intact, Shadow Claw + Shadow Sneak guarantees KO after Rocks. You dont need rocks if you use Play Rough instead of Shadow Claw but watch out for the miss
Mimikyu @ Ghostium Z
Ability: Disguise
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Shadow Sneak
- Play Rough
- Shadow Claw
Z-Shadow Claw kills for sure after rocks. Not relying on Shadow Sneak is nice bc Tapu Lele
People seem to be sleeping on Gliscor, but if you can get the Poison Heal activated, it becomes the best counter to pex in the game with EQ|Taunt|Defog|Roost/Toxic/Knock Off. You come in on literally any move, take 0 from it, and can Defog TSpikes, EQ it, Knock Off its Black Sludge, or Taunt it an prevent it from recovering. You could even feasibly run SD over Taunt so that you pressure it to stay in on you to Haze (if it even has it). It also stops defensive SR Lando cold, and just fucks with most defensive hazards setters in general with Taunt + Poison Heal to avoid status. I think it'll be a good fit for balance and stall teams alike.
Why are people treating NegaSonicPurpleDragon like it's Sharpedo levels of frail and is RK'd by anything/everything? Poison/Dragon is a fantastic defensive typing, and yes being weak to Ground and Psychic sucks but the added resistances are super solid. With 0 investment defensively, you live stuff like Mega Diance's Moonblast or Diamond Storm, Scarf Lele's Moonblast, Banded Tyranitar's Pursuit, Specs Koko's Dazzling Gleam (even after Rocks), Scarf Greninja's Ice Beam, and Banded Weavile's Ice Shard. Yes, most of those are close i.e. you don't want Sand/Hazards to be up but with the increase in Defoggers, that's not really an issue, and Psychic/Ground/Dragon all have immunities/resistances (Celesteela alone covers those).
People are saying Tapu Fini is done, Tapu Fini is dead, Tapu Fini is gone and I'm thinking: Misty Terrain halves power of Dragon moves. So, maybe play your Fini well to keep Misty Terrain up to support your TTar and your Tran in tanking that +2 Z-Draco Meteor from Naganadel. Just a thought...
Seriously though, Naganadel isn't over-hyped. You can't overhype something that have the coverage and power to KO the entire tier and can't be revenge killed outside of one scarfer (Gren) and a decent at best priority user (Weavile). Need I mention that both of these revenge killers are fodder for Shift Gear Magearna, SD MegaZor, Mega mawile, and probably more? This thing at the least will wreck OU and be suspect worthy.
I don't think you guys are realizing that it's still vulnerable to priority and, as TURBODERP himself said, still not living hits comfortably and those hits put it in the range of priority. Getting a Nasty Plot at all, especially vs an offensive team, is just incredibly difficult. Now if you do get the NP boost that means the game is pretty much over, unless you play intelligently. But getting that at all is just too hard for it to be that good, and it can be prevented from getting a kill afterwards. And people are saying it's suspect worthy and that it alone justifies Tapu Fini lol. Man, it's not that unbeatably good.
Anyways, Scor is looking to be HEAT in this metagame. As Halcyon said, it wrecks Pex and most hazard setters. HP Ice is already incredibly common on defensive Lando-T but at this point I think it'll become a staple just to not be Scor bait. With a pseudo status immunity, SR, Defog, U-Turn, Taunt and Knock Off, this thing has incredible utility. It might have a bit of 4MSS because it'll want all of those + EQ + Roost, but I still see it rising to either the B or A ranks. It's just that good of a defogger. Glad to see one of my favorite mons become good again :).
I don't think you guys are realizing that it's still vulnerable to priority and, as TURBODERP himself said, still not living hits comfortably and those hits put it in the range of priority. Getting a Nasty Plot at all, especially vs an offensive team, is just incredibly difficult. Now if you do get the NP boost that means the game is pretty much over, unless you play intelligently. But getting that at all is just too hard for it to be that good, and it can be prevented from getting a kill afterwards. And people are saying it's suspect worthy and that it alone justifies Tapu Fini lol. Man, it's not that unbeatably good.
Anyways, Scor is looking to be HEAT in this metagame. As Halcyon said, it wrecks Pex and most hazard setters. HP Ice is already incredibly common on defensive Lando-T but at this point I think it'll become a staple just to not be Scor bait. With a pseudo status immunity, SR, Defog, U-Turn, Taunt and Knock Off, this thing has incredible utility. It might have a bit of 4MSS because it'll want all of those + EQ + Roost, but I still see it rising to either the B or A ranks. It's just that good of a defogger. Glad to see one of my favorite mons become good again :).
Vulnerable as in it can be hit by priority? We're well aware, which may be a good reason to run Tapu Lele from time to time. But when your objective is wear it down to the point that your Priority mon can pick it off it doesn't help your case like you seem to think it does. I'm of the same camp of "cool it people, we don't even have it yet". But downplaying this thing to the levels you are is counterproductive. Also, acting like Naganadel won't have ample time to set up a Nasty Plot to snowball in the hands of someone even remotely competent is really negligent. Much like the VR thread, we need to assume people using these things have at least a working brain and know not to click Nasty Plot when they are at 48% and the opponent has a LOLvile on their team.
Will likely see an increase in banded Mamoswine/Weavil to revenge Naga after sacking something. Will also help in matchups v Gliscor. Meta will probably get quicker with more volt turn cores so the new UBs don't get free momentum
I don't think you guys are realizing that it's still vulnerable to priority and, as TURBODERP himself said, still not living hits comfortably and those hits put it in the range of priority. Getting a Nasty Plot at all, especially vs an offensive team, is just incredibly difficult. Now if you do get the NP boost that means the game is pretty much over, unless you play intelligently. But getting that at all is just too hard for it to be that good, and it can be prevented from getting a kill afterwards. And people are saying it's suspect worthy and that it alone justifies Tapu Fini lol. Man, it's not that unbeatably good.
Anyways, Scor is looking to be HEAT in this metagame. As Halcyon said, it wrecks Pex and most hazard setters. HP Ice is already incredibly common on defensive Lando-T but at this point I think it'll become a staple just to not be Scor bait. With a pseudo status immunity, SR, Defog, U-Turn, Taunt and Knock Off, this thing has incredible utility. It might have a bit of 4MSS because it'll want all of those + EQ + Roost, but I still see it rising to either the B or A ranks. It's just that good of a defogger. Glad to see one of my favorite mons become good again :).
I don't think you realized what is so threatning about this mon. It has a powerful NP set who can brute force around some of the bulkiest special walls of the game like SPDef Tran, Chansey, Toxapex and Mantine only TTar with a Niche garbage set of A-Vest Full HP/SpDef can confortably eat his attacks and strike back, people considering dropping Mega-Ttar, Band, Scarf, hazard setter in favor of having a somewhat solid check for it is proof of how much it is threatning.
Scarf and priority are not a reliable way to take it down since after a kill unless the scarf is greninja, koko, opposing Naganadel or Torn-T if you if thats your gist it outspeeds the entire metagame, you shouldn't count on priority either, yes you're able to KO with prior damage you but thats easier said than done since it could be under psychc terrain or be healty enough to stomach the hit. You mentioned struggling against offense but you only considered the NP set when it has othe viable options like scarf, specs even an orb set seems viable for it.
Now I get its faaar to early to say whetever is broken or not, for now all of it is just theory yet to be put in pratice but dismissing the threat it gives saying it is prone to priority and scarf is a mistake.
Why are people treating NegaSonicPurpleDragon like it's Sharpedo levels of frail and is RK'd by anything/everything? Poison/Dragon is a fantastic defensive typing, and yes being weak to Ground and Psychic sucks but the added resistances are super solid. With 0 investment defensively, you live stuff like Mega Diance's Moonblast or Diamond Storm, Scarf Lele's Moonblast, Banded Tyranitar's Pursuit, Specs Koko's Dazzling Gleam (even after Rocks), Scarf Greninja's Ice Beam, and Banded Weavile's Ice Shard. Yes, most of those are close i.e. you don't want Sand/Hazards to be up but with the increase in Defoggers, that's not really an issue, and Psychic/Ground/Dragon all have immunities/resistances (Celesteela alone covers those).
I agree with you but you forgot to consider Protean on Greninja.
What I am interested in is Prankster Defog Klefki who can always get off Defog which can be neat on HObuilds that utilize very hazardweak mons and also paralyze the new Dragon/Poison and other non Darktype sweepers. The question here is does Prankster Defog work against a Darkpokemon? Thunder Wave gets blocked yea but Defog reduces your evasion. If Dark Types do block Defog then you def. need Play Rough or Dazzling Gleam. The Set I am thinking about is:
Klefki @ Air Balloon
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Defog
- Dazzling Gleam
- Thunder Wave
- Recycle
Recycle Air Baloon is just a tech I would love to test but something like Foul Play, Toxic, Magnet Rise will prob be better overall. Air Baloon also makes you immune to Spikes as well.
Another tech could be Iapapa Berry + Recycle with maybe Magnet Rise if you happen to not care abt Twaving threats. With Prankster Recycle and Iapapa Berry, Klefki actually can get some reliable recovery. Steel/Fairy Typing with somewhat reliable recovery and access to Prankster Defog and potential Magnet Rise or Twave sounds pretty sexy to me
Friendly reminder to everyone to stay civil and on topic! This is a shiny, brand new thread to discuss shiny, brand new Ultra SM things - do not ruin it for everyone.
Will likely see an increase in banded Mamoswine/Weavil to revenge Naga after sacking something. Will also help in matchups v Gliscor. Meta will probably get quicker with more volt turn cores so the new UBs don't get free momentum
TBH I do see Weavile getting better. Ice Shard is more appreciated now alongside Icicle Crash. Definitely worth watching out for.
anyways, yeah Klefki could be an interesting defogger. Being a fairy/steel that can let Ttar in for free doesn't seem that great though. I'd definitely agree that Air Balloon is nice on it for that immunity to Spikes, as otherwise it's just gonna get worn down super easily with its not too great bulk and vulnerability to spikes as a defogger (tho resistance to sr and immunity to t spikes is nice). Won't be like Scor but it'll still be good.
I think it's a bit too early to be saying RIP to hazard stack teams. Sure Defog is a lot more widespread but hazard stack teams have always been Taunt heavy and either aim to benefit from the opponent trying to Defog through setup or Defiant mons. The possibility of faster Defogers like Tornadus and Koko will be more problematic for these teams but I don't see them dying off completely at all.
Also for what it's worth we probably got another decent spinner in Dhelmise now that it gets some fairly reliable recovery with Synthesis. Can't wait to try this out considering it nice resistances and bulk.
