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Move Stealth Rock
- Thread starter Ryker
- Start date
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I tried this before that was posted, I just didn't bother to post it until I wear reading this thread just now. Also a "quick search" for any swine + stealth rock doesn't easily find that post, it was only with his username that I easily found it.
Could you please change Blue or Purple to Green or something? It's kinda hard to differentiate them when they are next to each other.
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I'd actually start watching the anime again if the characters decided to use their brains like that.
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Since Stealth Rock is no longer a TM, and in Gen6 TM moves aren't passed down at all, then I would assume that unless you just flat out use your carry-overs from BW2 as-is, then the list of 'viable' mons with SR is cut down considerably. No?
EDIT: With Rock Head, choice band Head-Smash Tyrantrum has a decent chance of making OU, he two-hit KO's everything in OU but Swampert or something.
EDIT: With Rock Head, choice band Head-Smash Tyrantrum has a decent chance of making OU, he two-hit KO's everything in OU but Swampert or something.
Imo, I feel defog will be a last resort sort of thing. I mean what if your opponent sets up all his hazards and you don't have any. Defog will certainly help if you can use it. Sometimes getting stealth rock off the field can let your biggest threat not die to stealth rocks and come back in and wreck your opponents team. I feel overall having control over hazards is nice to have under your belt but relying on it as your primary source of hazard removal will be kinda silly.
Well most stealth rockers can beat usual defogers in one to one situations not only that but the vast majority of defogers are either natural to this move or weak to it , so its nearly impossible for defog to erase one of the best moves from the face of the metagame, it might also be easier for common sr rock pokemon like rhyperior and heatran to defend their rocks against defogers like scizor and crobat much easier than to be able to protect them against spinners like blastoise or starmie given that the stealth rocking team has no spin blocker ofc .
Skarmory and Ferrothorn cannot touch Skarmory, Scizor, Latios and Empoleon, all which can carry Defog.
Terrakion is walled by Skarm and gets obliterated by Scizor and Latios.
Tyrantrum is death fodder to Scizor and Latios.
Gliscor loses to Latios, is walled by Skarmory. Empoleon can take an EQ and OHKO with Ice Beam as long as Gliscor is not behind a sub.
Anti lead Infernape is a joke.
Hippowdon dies to Latios and Skarmory walls and phazes it.
Tyranitar does not enjoy Bullet Punches from Scizor, nor can do too much to Skarmory unless running Fire Blast. Crunch does hit it neutrally now, though.
Mamoswine is the only Stealth Rocker that can, without any doubt, destroy any defogger. Everything else is walled/loses to a mon that carries it.
Terrakion is walled by Skarm and gets obliterated by Scizor and Latios.
Tyrantrum is death fodder to Scizor and Latios.
Gliscor loses to Latios, is walled by Skarmory. Empoleon can take an EQ and OHKO with Ice Beam as long as Gliscor is not behind a sub.
Anti lead Infernape is a joke.
Hippowdon dies to Latios and Skarmory walls and phazes it.
Tyranitar does not enjoy Bullet Punches from Scizor, nor can do too much to Skarmory unless running Fire Blast. Crunch does hit it neutrally now, though.
Mamoswine is the only Stealth Rocker that can, without any doubt, destroy any defogger. Everything else is walled/loses to a mon that carries it.
How are people getting Stealth Rocks onto the Flying Egg group (Aerodactyl / Skarmory)?
Here are the ones that seem likely to me:
Tyranitar: Monster Group. Inherits SR from Tyrantrum (level up)
Mamoswine: Field Group. Inherits SR from Smeargle (Sketch)
Ferrothorn: Mineral Group. Inherit from Geodude / Rogenrolla / etc. etc.
Forretress: Bug Group. Inherit from Crustle.
This is important because Aerodactyl/Skarmory may not have access to SR till Pokebank comes out.
Here are the ones that seem likely to me:
Tyranitar: Monster Group. Inherits SR from Tyrantrum (level up)
Mamoswine: Field Group. Inherits SR from Smeargle (Sketch)
Ferrothorn: Mineral Group. Inherit from Geodude / Rogenrolla / etc. etc.
Forretress: Bug Group. Inherit from Crustle.
This is important because Aerodactyl/Skarmory may not have access to SR till Pokebank comes out.
In terms of Heavy Offense, so long as something has high speeds, a Focus Sash, and Stealth Rock, there will always be a Pokemon that can do just that for HO. Examples include: Deo-N and Smeargle with Sticky Web. To be honest, I could name a whole bunch more, but those two are the best and if you're not using those for HO you're doing it wrong. There are lots of stally Pokemon that get SR (hiya Ferrothorn!) so I wouldn't be worried about SR going anywhere. As long as Flying-types and Multiscale and Sash and Sturdy exists, SR will too!
FYI: Galvantula is faster than Smeargle and gets Sticky Web. Hell, Galvantula's 108 speed beats a lot of things!
On the Stealth Rocks topic: I agree. Stealth Rocks is just... good. With a single-turn setup, you will deal 12% damage until your opponent switches in a defogger / rapid spinner. At which point, Stealth Rocks probably will do 25% dmg to the defogger, and the opponent will essentially waste a turn to clear the hazards.
Even with easy Defog, the player who played Stealth Rocks has the advantage.
I just meant that if you use Galvantula, then you need to use something ELSE for SR, which means the HO team now has two suicide slots, and why do that when Magic Coat / Spore / SR / Sticky Web Smeargle does both jobs? (I'm not saying it can't work, only that I prefer utilizing my suicide lead for both options. I can see that Smeargle isn't too reliable at getting both hazards up in comparison to two setters, but even still Smeargle usually does a good job in my experiences).
Although I must admit, Galvantula is pretty cool too. I bet you could slap on an Occa Berry to lure in Genesect and Blaziken or the rock-resist berry and HP Ice for Scarf Landorus-T; it's certainly got options!
EDIT: Yeah, the thing with Defog is that for HO teams, you can usually set up with something like Talonflame as well as maintaining the advantage you mentioned ;]
Although I must admit, Galvantula is pretty cool too. I bet you could slap on an Occa Berry to lure in Genesect and Blaziken or the rock-resist berry and HP Ice for Scarf Landorus-T; it's certainly got options!
EDIT: Yeah, the thing with Defog is that for HO teams, you can usually set up with something like Talonflame as well as maintaining the advantage you mentioned ;]
I see what you mean now, I think I didn't understand earlire.
Personally, I think that a whole bunch of counterparts to Stealth Rock, each designed to punish a specific type weakness (like Stealth Rock punishes Rock weaknesses) and all of them mutually exclusive (e.g. setting one up removes the previous one), would be a really good thing for the metagame.
Are these the only ones we have confirmed so far, or has more been tested? I really wish the original post of this thread would add this information in, since it would be really helpful for people planning to add a legal Stealth Rocks user on their team, before Pokebank.
I hate Stealth Rock for pretty much forcing the game to revolve around it, but for that exact reason it's not going anywhere. I do think its usage will change just a little, though. With the decline of suicide leads and the buff to defog, I see dedicated hazard setters, even Ferrothorn, being conserved far more wisely - brought out mid-game rather than the beginning- now that there are far more numerous viable pokemon who can get it off the field. Talonflame alone can destroy Ferrothorn and get rid of rocks on its own.
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has anybody figured how to breed stealth rock on Skarmory yet? it lets me use it for pre pokebank Ou on PS but I'm not sure if this is a mistake or if it is possible through some elaborate breeding chain. I am thinking the key may be Archeops because it is in both the flying and water 3 egg groups. Anyway if anybody has figured out a chain that lets you get SR on Skarmory pre pokembank let me know, thanks!
edit: skarmory is the only pokemon is the flying egg group that learns as an egg move (archeops is tutor only which does not work for gen 6) so as far as i can see there is no way to get it
edit: skarmory is the only pokemon is the flying egg group that learns as an egg move (archeops is tutor only which does not work for gen 6) so as far as i can see there is no way to get it
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Defog has made monobug teams pretty effective. I'm sitting at 1650 in pokebank OU on pokemonshowdown thanks to Armaldo (Rapid Spin) + Ninjask (Defog). Those two are able to support Scizor / MPinsir / Volcarona / Galvantula to the point where I am rarely taking hazard damage.
In the previous generation, mono-bug was basically impossible. Partially because of Ninetails, but also because Armaldo was the only viable spinner. But thanks to Defog, you have a few more options. In-fact, Night Slash Ninjask consistently beats Aegislash and Greninja, who are in abundant supply at the moment.
In the previous generation, mono-bug was basically impossible. Partially because of Ninetails, but also because Armaldo was the only viable spinner. But thanks to Defog, you have a few more options. In-fact, Night Slash Ninjask consistently beats Aegislash and Greninja, who are in abundant supply at the moment.
Agreed with the Talonflame easily kill Ferrothorn, but since the defog rumor was a bunch of bull, it can't get rid of rocks if they get set up.
what about forretress?
And any effective user of king's shield and protean will have no trouble dealing with Ninjask (though I'm assuming Greninja's already used protean before you switch in. A free attack on a dark type hazardous to Greninja's health)
Stealth Rock is the Prisoner's Dilemma. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prisoner's_dilemma)
It is in both player's best interest if neither player uses the move as it (arguably) allows both players to play the game in a purer form.
However, it is very disadvantageous if your opponent uses it and you don't.
Because of this, it becomes an "illogical choice" for any individual to not use it, as it either gives you an advantage or places you at neutral, at worst.
This leads to everyone needing to use Stealth Rock.
It is in both player's best interest if neither player uses the move as it (arguably) allows both players to play the game in a purer form.
However, it is very disadvantageous if your opponent uses it and you don't.
Because of this, it becomes an "illogical choice" for any individual to not use it, as it either gives you an advantage or places you at neutral, at worst.
This leads to everyone needing to use Stealth Rock.
Or maybe we actually enjoy playing with Stealth Rocks? If Smogon didn't like it, we'd ban it. (See Evasion Clause and Moody)
Pretty sure those are banned because they enforce a predominately luck based game. Stealth Rock does not. It has nothing to do with "liking" it or not.
A friend of mine brought up a point similar to this, and in response, I built a team solely to counter SR without having to use it myself. It wasn't tournament viable, as magic bounce mind games can get messy, but if played right, I never lost to teams built around SR (spikes was a different story)
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