NP: UU - Silent Night

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Then the system needs to be changed for nominations. The system, atm, doesn't require much explanation for the no suspect response, so they have to be rated the same.
not what he is saying - hes saying that every bl nomination is given enough detail to be a serious nomination. to match against it, the player who posts no suspects will have his accountibility or whatever checked out. unless you are an actual player who actually knows what they are doing, your vote wont hold anywhere near the stock of someone who nominated something for bl with solid reasoning.

there are obviously enough competent players in the thread that said no suspects that it was still enough.
 

Bad Ass

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please stop bitching about hax, people. i swear to god have you never been crit before? jesus even when i explain to these people how this crit didn't matter, and i win without it, they must justify their loss in some manner. fuck you all.

in other news, hariyama is solid! very good bulk + strong close combat is really great in this metagame. being able to take one hit from any sweeper and strike back for the ko is a great ability! plus fake out and bullet punch are monstrous.
 
What spread are you using?

Timid Moltres LO Air Slash vs. 4/0 Hariyama: 108.8% - 128.4%
Jolly Scyther (Technician) LO Aerial Ace vs. 4/0 Hariyama: 119.1% - 140.9%
Jolly Scyther (Technician) CB Aerial Ace vs. 4/0 Hariyama: OHKO for sure
+1 Jolly Swellow Brave Bird vs. 4/0 Hariyama: 154.9% - 182.8%
Timid Alakazam LO Psychic vs. 4/0 Hariyama: 138.1% - 163.3%

It's hard to believe Hariyama can live all these hits and hit back, especially if Stealth Rock is present or if Hariyama is Burned / Poisoned. That said, there does seem to be a lack of Pokemon that can switch into Fighting-types, live a hit and hit back super effectively while not being very vulnerable to priority + SR. I've even been considering HP Flying on Mismagius to kill them with ...

EDIT: Timid Mismagius HP Flying vs. 4/0 Hariyama: 46.5% - 54.9%. May not even be a 2HKO, and Mismagius is not going to survive a Payback. What the heck.
 

Bad Ass

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well fuck obviously a stab super effective attack will ohko. don't be retarded. hariyama can take any non super effective stab hit; there, are you happy now? he can take a hit from arcanine, registeel, milotic, clefable, rotom, mismagius, etc, and ko back. that was the point. done posting in this thread, too stupid.
 

Meru

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What spread are you using?

Timid Moltres LO Air Slash vs. 4/0 Hariyama: 108.8% - 128.4%
Jolly Scyther (Technician) LO Aerial Ace vs. 4/0 Hariyama: 119.1% - 140.9%
Jolly Scyther (Technician) CB Aerial Ace vs. 4/0 Hariyama: OHKO for sure
+1 Jolly Swellow Brave Bird vs. 4/0 Hariyama: 154.9% - 182.8%
Timid Alakazam LO Psychic vs. 4/0 Hariyama: 138.1% - 163.3%

It's hard to believe Hariyama can live all these hits and hit back, especially if Stealth Rock is present or if Hariyama is Burned / Poisoned. That said, there does seem to be a lack of Pokemon that can switch into Fighting-types, live a hit and hit back super effectively while not being very vulnerable to priority + SR. I've even been considering HP Flying on Mismagius to kill them with ...

EDIT: Timid Mismagius HP Flying vs. 4/0 Hariyama: 46.5% - 54.9%. May not even be a 2HKO, and Mismagius is not going to survive a Payback. What the heck.
Kyogre dies to a Raikou's Thunder so Kyogre should be BL

Wait wat? tard.
 

FlareBlitz

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Could we tone down the hostility a bit please? It's not necessary.

It's really saddening that extremely good Pokemon like Manectric are languishing in UU because people are too scared to get away from the bog-standard teams everyone has been using for months now. And people wonder why the metagame is stale. Guys, there are literally dozens of NU Pokemon with untapped potential waiting for an appropriately-minded user to win games with them. I bet if we all make a pledge to use at least one new set we have never used before every day we'll liven up the metagame by leaps and bounds. And what the fuck do you have to lose anyway, voting rights for No Suspects? >_>
 
Kyogre dies to a Raikou's Thunder so Kyogre should be BL

Wait wat? tard.
The most appropriate response to your post would be a witticism regarding the strength of your reading comprehension, but sadly the level of irony this would entail is too great for this thread to withstand, and the topic would collapse under the stress of its weight.



On another, hardly more relevant note: more people should use Magcargo. It actually works.
 
I think it's dumb that some people make the grand statement that Hariyama can survive a hit from any Pokemon, without any qualifying statements, and then calls me stupid for questioning such an improbable statement. Like I know Hariyama is bulky, but being able to survive such any hit from any Pokemon is difficult to believe and I performed calcs, zzz.

I'll make the "equal" statement that Uxie survives a hit from any sweeper because Choice Band Adamant 252 Attack Absol using Night Slash vs. 252/96 Uxie - 78.5% - 93.2%. Super effective, STAB, Choice Band boosted, 130 base attack, +ve nature, Uxie lives.

I think Manectric is a reasonable Pokemon but its defenses are just ... really bad.
 

Meru

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Could we tone down the hostility a bit please? It's not necessary.

It's really saddening that extremely good Pokemon like Manectric are languishing in UU because people are too scared to get away from the bog-standard teams everyone has been using for months now. And people wonder why the metagame is stale. Guys, there are literally dozens of NU Pokemon with untapped potential waiting for an appropriately-minded user to win games with them. I bet if we all make a pledge to use at least one new set we have never used before every day we'll liven up the metagame by leaps and bounds. And what the fuck do you have to lose anyway, voting rights for No Suspects? >_>
I agree with you. However, certain people decide to try to post stuff like this in retaliation:

I'm not naming any names here.

It's not so much that gimmicks tend to be bad (in fact for many people something has to be bad to be called a gimmick), or that trolling the ladder with "gimmick teams" is annoying. It's simply the sheer attitude that comes with using gimmicks. It's bad enough on Shoddy chat where people think they're the best trainer in the world because they beat some noob's OU team with NUs. But when it happens in this forum it just irks me a little. I'm certain that I'm not alone in thinking this.

People seem to view the use of an uncommon Pokémon to beat the ladder as some kind of ridiculously high achievement. People seem to think that just because they have unorthodox measures against the top Pokémon their voices matter that much more. (Actually, this happened in Garchomp and Salamence threads too... look at what happened to that.) People grind up the ladder, post an RMT, and then watch as their teams get copied and spammed, and they use this to justify acting like a big shot, a rebel against the "competitive" mindset of other players. It's fine that people post uncommon sets to try out from time to time to beat common cores, but then there are some people who seem to have some kind of contempt against the state of the metagame, and who somehow feel that mentioning the Pokémon they like to abuse the most every chance they get is somehow an improvement to this.

Guess what? No one cares! I sure don't. It's come to the point where each avatar is just an indication of what flavour of elitism is going to be presented in the post. But at the end of the day I look at every single person who's had this "my gimmicks are best yo" attitude - in this forum as well as in others - and not a single one has had any sort of significant presence on Smogon, tournament or otherwise, other than maybe C&C. All you guys are doing is squelching the spirit of simply playing the game to learn and improve. I got tired of the predominant culture of this thread a long time ago. Indeed, the Dunning-Kruger effect is alive and well here.

The recent Magcargo charade and WhiteQueen's rise to the top of the ladder serve merely to accentuate my point and parody the state of this community. The people arguing about Magcargo typically don't post much here, but what they do post is usually much more profound than most of the rest of the thread. They're much more commonly seen on IRC, planning matches against each other on the CAP server because the ladder isn't good or fun enough. We laugh at the Magcargo argument now, but honestly the rest of the thread hasn't been much better. Then there's WhiteQueen's hail team. From what I've gathered from conversations on IRC, WQ was just gaming the ladder with a team that she probably wouldn't take to a tournament. "Whatever." Not that it's a bad team - if you spam Ice moves enough you'll freeze your counter, end of story - but you get the idea. It's not exactly a tremendous feat to do well on the ladder with a flawed team, even a mono-team.

I haven't been on Shoddy ladders much recently because Shoddy 2 is apparently in the home stretch and I'm basically going on Shoddy and PO to participate in testing projects (currently the Arceus test the only thing, followed by CAP 11 testing and more UU testing in the future I guess). I was never a prolific pole-dancer like some of you guys are anyway :P So I can only imagine what UU is like at this very moment, or what WhiteQueen's team is like. However - I know I've said this many times before but - some things just don't change about UU. People never have to bend over backwards with gimmicks or near-gimmicks to beat the fad of the day. A team I've barely changed for a year and still only changed in response to CroakDoom still works, and indeed CroakDoom is the only consistent combo in my memory that's ever given it severe trouble, other than maybe Life Orb Magmortar and Honchkrow. It's just a simple team of a redundant offense backed up by a tried-and-true defensive core, nothing fancy. Of course I try out suspects and NUs - most half-decent people do - but in the end I tend to fall back on the timeless classics.

So what I'm basically saying is, let's just play this game instead of nitpicking at each other's flaws to boost our own egos.
As for NU pokemon, I myself have been working with a Golbat lead this entire round and it's been doing really well.
 
Muk, as many would (or should) know, is a pretty stellar Pokemon at the moment. I know someone mentioned it some pages back, and I've been thinking about him for a while. I gave the following set a whirl the other day and was pretty impressed by how it handled.


Muk (M) @ Black Sludge
Ability: Sticky Hold
EVs: 212 HP/148 Atk/148 SDef
Careful nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
- Substitute
- Curse
- Poison Jab
- Shadow Sneak / Brick Break (?) / Focus Punch (?) / Ice Punch (?)

I was using this to patch up a few holes in a team of mine (namely Venusaur and Mismagius), so it might be a bit too specific for you guys. In any case, it's a slight re-jig of the Curse set posted on this site. HP is obviously 404, for the obvious reason. I was running 184 SDef, but changed it because 148 with a +SDef nature still means standard defensive Milotic needs two Surfs to break the substitute. The thing I liked about this set is that it could setup on the top two Pokemon in the tier, and take care of offensive Mismagius for me. Don't get me wrong, a lot of things do wall this, but that's what a team is for.

That was just my set for its intended purpose, but there are certainly a lot of options on offer.
 
there's nothing wrong with capefeather's post. he is (rightfully) pointing out that when users adopt a holier-than-thou attitude about using unpopular pokemon, it's annoying. if he called out specific users that would be pushing it, but all he's doing is expressing his views about something in a reasonable manner.

i like lo manectric a lot more than choice specs. it really sucks when any ground pokemon switches in and then you're like "if only i was lo i could just ohko it right here... but nope i'm specs". also the #1 june pokemon resists your stab. i don't really miss the power too much with life orb esp cause you can use charge beam. although with choice specs, there are some cool lures to use like shuca drapion. it is nice not taking tons of recoil from life orb too. assuming flareblitz made a typo, i agree with the letter of his post (and i agree with the spirit of it regardless) - manectric is a really antimetagame pokemon and it doesn't need much support to function. it benefits a lot if you can intelligently double switch though.

offensive omastar lead is "still" good, unsurprisingly. sd zangoose is very hard to set up but it is an absolute monster if you get a dance and had other pokemon on your team bait/kill ghosts (mix houndoom for rotom/missy/kinda tomb, <any of the 20 pokemon walled by tomb>, etc) since qa means it is very hard to revenge kill. sub cm mismagius is kind of a forgotten threat but it sets up pretty nicely on the new standard venusaur; sludge bomb deals 18.7% - 22% after a calm mind and leaf storm can't keep breaking +1 substitutes - and this only matters if venusaur hasn't spammed sleep powder, or else you don't even have to bother worrying about getting slept. trick flame orb alakazam is a big fucking gimmick but it has good offensive synergy with cm mismagius (gotta give mop credit for that set i stole it unashamedly from him) since it lures and disables registeel/spiritomb/etc. lo sub split rotom impresses me since it can 2hko offensive venusaur (among hitting lots of other stuff very hard) and yet doesn't lose to registeel; it obviously beats chansey. unsurprisingly bad ass is right about orb hariyama; i remember trying to pair it with wish support (i think i came up with eggy lol but im sure there are better options) with some sdef to let it switch in a lot more. i find most of the damage it takes is ~20% from resisted/weak attacks but combined with the orb, it dies a lot earlier than it should and than i want it to.
 

FlareBlitz

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For Manectric, the most successful set I've used is definitely the Life Orb set, with Thunderbolt/Charge Beam/HP Grass/Flamethrower. Venusaur resisting Tbolt means jack-all when it's ohko'd by Flamethrower, and if you spam Charge Beam and get lucky with the boost you can even beat Registeel. Still walled by Chansey but Chansey sucks so...

I've never used an Orb with Hariyama, its defenses are way too useful for that. I tried a Bulk Up set with Bulk Up/Low Kick/Payback/Ice Punch and it functioned really well. For some reason whenever people see Leftovers on Hariyama they assume it's Thick Fat and try to burn it, which is hilarious since you can 2hko Weezing with Payback after a burn and a bulk up. A burn isn't that bad when you have Leftovers either, making it a real pain to take out. It also loves switching on random Thunderwaves.

Regarding SD Goose, I would really rather just use SD Quick Feet Ursaring. Yeah it sweeps on a shorter timer, but it is significantly faster, being able to beat Rotom and tie with Mismagius, while having a MUCH stronger primary STAB and a way of doing a ton of damage to Spiritomb (via Earthquake). Honestly whenever I've used Ursaring it has never not killed anything, and if I manage to switch it in on something attempting a paralysis it becomes absurdly deadly.
 

shrang

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Could we tone down the hostility a bit please? It's not necessary.

It's really saddening that extremely good Pokemon like Manectric are languishing in UU because people are too scared to get away from the bog-standard teams everyone has been using for months now. And people wonder why the metagame is stale. Guys, there are literally dozens of NU Pokemon with untapped potential waiting for an appropriately-minded user to win games with them. I bet if we all make a pledge to use at least one new set we have never used before every day we'll liven up the metagame by leaps and bounds. And what the fuck do you have to lose anyway, voting rights for No Suspects? >_>
Lol, I pretty much just run NUs about 3.5/4 weeks the voting period goes for, go back to one of my more reliable teams (Which could be one of my newer NU teams, heh) to get to 1600/55. It's quite easy.

As for NU pokemon, I myself have been working with a Golbat lead this entire round and it's been doing really well.
Hey, don't steal my glory, =O. Whatever, Golbat is awesome.

Regarding SD Goose, I would really rather just use SD Quick Feet Ursaring. Yeah it sweeps on a shorter timer, but it is significantly faster, being able to beat Rotom and tie with Mismagius, while having a MUCH stronger primary STAB and a way of doing a ton of damage to Spiritomb (via Earthquake). Honestly whenever I've used Ursaring it has never not killed anything, and if I manage to switch it in on something attempting a paralysis it becomes absurdly deadly.
It outspeeds Mismagius. What are you smoking o_0. I personally like SD/Crunch/Close Combat/Facade better, but eh.
 

Meru

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I use Golbat using Brave Bird / Roost / Taunt / U-turn on a balanced team. Gets what I want out of most leads and comes back in later to stop grass types like Venusaur and Fighting types like Toxicroak cold. Biggest problem with him is giving free switch-ins to Donphan, Rhyperior, and Aggron. People on the retesting BLs can theorymon all you want, but running something like Giga Drain on Golbat just for Rhyperior is not really worth it to me.

Like Sleep Talk Weezing however, you really should have a dangerous set up Fire type tagging along for Venusaur. Especially since Golbat can be repeatedly worn down by SR alone.
 

IronBullet

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in other news, hariyama is solid! very good bulk + strong close combat is really great in this metagame. being able to take one hit from any sweeper and strike back for the ko is a great ability! plus fake out and bullet punch are monstrous.
yep, i can attest to the beastliness of this set. toxic/flame orb powers up hariyama's cc to insane levels, and 2hkos even tangrowth, which is probably the most physically bulky pokemon in uu. i run a spread with 188 sp def evs, and as a testament to its bulk, it survives a max sp atk modest mesprit psychic, and ohkos back with payback. fake out + bullet punch also obtains kos on fast but frail sweepers, such as alakazam, swellow and dugtrio. makes it a decent revenge killer as well.
 

uragg

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On Guts Hariyama, I like Leftovers over a status orb. Status isn't that hard to bait from stuff like Registeel, Clefable, lead Uxie, Chansey, Spiritomb, Weezing, etc. and Leftovers really helps Yama stay alive for longer than 3 or 4 attacks. Against stall teams, this puts a lot more pressure on them since it's much harder to stall out the status damage with switches and it also gives Yama more attacks against something like Weezing that won't die in 2 attacks. Against offense status may be harder to lure but most offensive teams still carry 'glue' such as Registeel that you can try to absorb paralysis from.
 

franky

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I for one believe that hariyama is still an untapped offensive prospect and people forgot about it as a potent physical sweeper ever since froslass was banished from uu play. reading this thread, it does sound like it can be a vicious physical sweeer with immunity to burn pretty much + access to boosting moves such as bulk up (just found this out!). this all sounds nice in theory, but in practice it takes a whole lot of effort to bring hariyama in even with that massive hp stat because hariyama is technically running on a ticker bomb (toxic orb variants) -- p. much just a fatter swellow.

if people want to use hariyama to its fullest, i'd suggest an lo hariyama + sub/np mismagius. they function quite well in tandem as missy tends to draw in registeel which gives hariyama an opportunity to switch-in. hariyama often lures in spiritomb as well and nails it with stone edge. after fb posted that set though, i'm currently going to test a bulk up set to deal more damage to tomb.
 

IronBullet

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On Guts Hariyama, I like Leftovers over a status orb. Status isn't that hard to bait from stuff like Registeel, Clefable, lead Uxie, Chansey, Spiritomb, Weezing, etc. and Leftovers really helps Yama stay alive for longer than 3 or 4 attacks. Against stall teams, this puts a lot more pressure on them since it's much harder to stall out the status damage with switches and it also gives Yama more attacks against something like Weezing that won't die in 2 attacks. Against offense status may be harder to lure but most offensive teams still carry 'glue' such as Registeel that you can try to absorb paralysis from.
That would work well, but be careful about switching into para, as you never know when it might just end up fucking you in the ass, eg. getting fully para'ed as you try to payback a Ghost switch-in. Switching into a Will-O-Wisp seems like it would be the most attractive option.
 

Arcticblast

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That would work well, but be careful about switching into para, as you never know when it might just end up fucking you in the ass, eg. getting fully para'ed as you try to payback a Ghost switch-in. Switching into a Will-O-Wisp seems like it would be the most attractive option.
Or switch it in to the first layer of Toxic Spikes. I agree on the para-hax part, it really sucks to be fully paralyzed. Kind of like having Leaf Storm miss twice in a row.
 
lol recently i was swept 6-0ed by a Belly Drum Hariyama+ Bullet Punch...of course in UU anything is possible and you cant prepare for anything lol but I completely was caught off gaurd when it used sub (thinking it was Focus Punch)..It's the 3rd strongest user of Belly drum after azumarill and ursaring... ha underrated set
 

Ice-eyes

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No offense to Hariyama but iirc, Azumarill does that better with a better priority move.

Someone really needs to help me, because I suck at UU.
 
I think he's not talking about Azumarill with Belly Drum + Aqua Jet, but as a attacker in general.
At least i hope...
 
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