Physical Landorus is still good, which many forget
There is a good chance the suspect reqs are just too low and I am bad (got reqs easily). But I was personally unable to beat stall using landorus-i. And it seemed actively bad vs offense. So I have to vote no ban.
How do stall teams counter this thing? Sure, there is sun stall so they have Cresselia to wall RP Landorus-I all day, but that'll go down after a few U-turn's or that infamous Choice Scarf / Choice Band Tyrnaitar + RP Landorus-I core. Same with Gengar as well. A small part of the reason we're suspecting Keldeo and Landorus-I is because they are so over-dominant and crush stall teams. If they both go to Ubers, our metagame will most likely take some dramatic conclusions and many will be stable at their current tier. This is probably the last step we are taking until our metagame is finished/There is a good chance the suspect reqs are just too low and I am bad (got reqs easily). But I was personally unable to beat stall using landorus-i. And it seemed actively bad vs offense. So I have to vote no ban.
Just use the blobs? Employ smart play? Use Zapdos, Gastrodon, Amoongus, Togekiss, Mandibuzz, etc? Have Mons that Landorus cant ohko but that ohko back (bulky waters) so he doesnt get anything done?How do stall teams counter this thing?
252 SpA Life Orb Landorus Hidden Power Ice vs. 192 HP / 0 SpD Zapdos: 200-237 (54.2 - 64.22%) -- guaranteed 2HKOJust use the blobs? Employ smart play? Use Zapdos, Gastrodon, Amoongus, Togekiss, Mandibuzz, etc? Have Mons that Landorus cant ohko but that ohko back (bulky waters) so he doesnt get anything done?
Ive had pretty good success with stall on one hand at the top of the ladder (been top5 for almost 1 year with a stallteam....) and on the other in tournaments (ost9, bestladderer, superstars).
Maybe its not that stall doesnt work but that one is to lazy to build a good team or to grasp how to play stall in bw?
Dunno but stall still works for me....
What you'd probably do is first switch into something like Amoonguss that can just quickly recover back any HP lost, then from that, bait the Landorus to use Earth Power and switch to Zapdos or something. Then Landorus can't OHKO Zapdos, while Zapdos OHKOs back and hence forces Landorus out.252 SpA Life Orb Landorus Hidden Power Ice vs. 192 HP / 0 SpD Zapdos: 200-237 (54.2 - 64.22%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Focus Blast vs. 4 HP / 252+ SpD Blissey: 237-281 (36.34 - 43.09%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 228+ SpD Amoonguss: 195-230 (45.13 - 53.24%) -- 92.19% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock...
According to Delko Aldaron discussed creating the voting thread in IRC so imagine very soon.So um... what is going on with the suspect voting? The identification thread was locked a few days ago.
1. Amoonguss has no reliable recovery, it's Giga Drain isn't the strongest thing out thereWhat you'd probably do is first switch into something like Amoonguss that can just quickly recover back any HP lost, then from that, bait the Landorus to use Earth Power and switch to Zapdos or something. Then Landorus can't OHKO Zapdos, while Zapdos OHKOs back and hence forces Landorus out.
So um... what is going on with the suspect voting? The identification thread was locked a few days ago.
I never said he was "huge" threat. I said he was threat, and that's a fact. And also I know that BW2 isn't demolishing stall. The difference is whether or not it's a threat or not. The Rock Polish set lacks enough coverage to destroy stall teams and the U-turn set doesn't have enough speed. Landorus-I is suspect for these reasons. It's hard to counter. I agree that Landorus-I isn't a huge threat, but it's definitely a threat which you have to admit, since it seems you've played stall before. :)So? Youre just rattling down some calcs. I could do the same for Terrakion, Thundurus-T, Keldeo, Lando-T, *insertbwsweeperhere* and get a similar short list of Mons. Not to mention that Zapdos is goin to use an special defensive split because that is his best BW-Set. You also assume that Lando-I 'predicts' right which imo isnt a given seeing how Lando is often hardpressed to just use a certain Move or it might take a strong attack in its face.
From my experience with stall teams Landorus-I isnt the threat im usually most concerned about. Hes a threat sure but he isnt overbearing. And idk but if i still have success with stall in high-end tournaments then somehow i take that as a pretty good indicator. Lando-I isnt demolishing stall, bw2 just made stall really hard due to the increased number of mons and their diversified sets (more sets via dreamworld-abilities). But hard doesnt equal impossible. ;)
There will be a thread in the Blind Voting Subforum. Just be on the look out for it. It should be up soon enough.When and where do we vote :p
Uhh, Regenerator on Amoonguss? I thought that was pretty obvious. And Amoonguss + Zapdos specifically wasn't even the point. The point was, when you first see a Landorus, you'd switch just keep switching until you get something out that can take a hit and OHKO Landorus back, which it seems you've completely missed that somehow...1. Amoonguss has no reliable recovery, it's Giga Drain isn't the strongest thing out there
2. Zapdos can't outpace Landorus
3. 3/4 of Landorus are Rock Polish, hence they use Modest Nature which OHKOes Zapdos after Stealth Rock. My calculations were demonstrating a Timid Nature.
Were you consistently out-predicting the Landorus users? With Rotom-W, how did you avoid taking a Focus Blast on the switch-in, and then face the impending 70% doom (or U-turn if they want to play it safe)? As someone who's on the fence on which way to vote, this sounds as if you were simply the better player, not that Landorus doesn't have an inherent advantage.I agree with Conflict - stall faces bigger problems than Landorus. I earned reqs using stall virtually all the time, and it was not hard to cover for Landorus. This is because most conventional stall elements already fares well vs Sheer Force Landorus. Latias and Blissey, for instance are great checks to Landorus, but they were important for checking much more than that. Banning Landorus wont reduce their usage on defensive teams. Tyranitar wasn't a big problem for me, because I had multiple answers to Landorus without resorting to Latias. Meanwhile, I can wear down Tyranitar with SR + Spikes to the point that it cannot switch into Latias or after Landorus was dealt with. I even replaced a Landorus check, a specially-defensive Rotom-W, for ScarfTar, and my team was still able to deal with Landorus just fine.
The other 5% of the time, I used the classic offensive team with Keldeo and Landorus that my spl teammate offered, but I found it very inconsistent to use. Mainly because the Keldeo-Lando-TTar core is vulnerable to opposing Keldeo and Landorus, so the other three Pokemon must check these mons, not to mention all the other threats of BW2 OU. My stall team was much more prepared for these and other relevant threats, and I find it more consistent to use, despite the lengthy games. Yes, stall is very much alive even in BW2 OU. It's probably not as brainless to use as it was in previous gens, though, but that's not something that needs fixing.
Couple of things. Firstly, if this was DPP then yes, I would argue that this point holds water, because its tremendously hard to see your counters. However BW has given us team preview, thus its very, very simple for me to see what checks my Landorus, and what you can and will switch into it. In addition, its not at all tricky for me to rig situations such as bringing in Landorus-I on a Ferrothorn for free, letting me spam Focus Blast (im not losing health from LO) while your Rotom-W loses a truckload of health.It's guaranteed with rocks up, but you're still implying the Landorus user has perfect prediction and it never lives up to its nickname.